Covid-19

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4 years 2 months ago #550445 by linrae
Replied by linrae on topic Covid-19
You pulling my leg
You mean Dave Attenborough series????

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4 years 2 months ago #550457 by Alan Gilbert
Replied by Alan Gilbert on topic Covid-19
That's the one. The voice-over is so like him it's uncanny.

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4 years 2 months ago #550474 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Covid-19
Friend of ours in his 70's was having trouble with a renter in a small cottage he has as part of a B&B She was having takiing in visitors at all hours of day and night and he was getting very concerned she might be bringing back a huge risk of Covid=19 contamination. One of the visitors he had ordered off the property several times, but the guy kept coming back so the friend called the police. They arrested the man and took him away as he was legally trespassing, but the renter, who hasn't paid her rent for some time, had another girl staying, also not paying rent, and the first one had already had her contract cancelled. He wanted the police to remove the girls too since it was such a risk to him, but they thought it a big joke and wouldn't arrest the girls unless they began sneaking out again at night and bringing more strays back. (Don't know if they are in the old profession) He's pretty angry the police were so un-supportive of him. Going to lay a complaint. I think it stinks. The girl and her misfit friends should not be there putting his life at risk.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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4 years 2 months ago #550480 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic Covid-19
Your old friend needs to get onto the Tenancy Tribunal asap (even though they're not sitting at the moment I believe) and lodge the various notices for a) rectifying the rent issue (a 14 day notice I think) and 2) starting the eviction process. Though, the govt in their bloody minded "lets be effing kind" wisdom means that you cannot evict a tenant now until they are 60 days overdue with rent. The cops would not have removed a legally entitled tenant, irrespective of whether she had paid rent or not.

So goodluck and tell your friend to start the legal process now.....whilst he still has legal legs to stand on and before the govt decides that all tenancies are now social housing and we need to be "kinder".

I'm taking mental bets on how long it takes people to realize that there are more of us than there are of them (police and military). It was interesting that where we live we could hear no traffic noise on Thursday, but Friday was almost business as usual in terms of traffic noise drifting to us. Won't take long before people just start moving around as normal....irrespective of the police threats of imprisonment - don't think we have that many spare beds in prison.

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4 years 2 months ago #550481 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Covid-19
I think under his B&B status, people have a limited time to stay, and her contract was up several months ago. he had got as far as reimbursing her bond, but luckily she hadn't cashed it in so he stopped the cheque. he will at least have that to cover some of her weekly payments.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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4 years 2 months ago #550485 by Mudlerk
Replied by Mudlerk on topic Covid-19
"in their bloody minded 'lets be effing kind' wisdom" is a CREEPY thing to say, Kilmoon!! ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM THE FORUM...

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4 years 2 months ago #550486 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic Covid-19

Mudlerk wrote: "in their bloody minded 'lets be effing kind' wisdom" is a CREEPY thing to say, Kilmoon!! ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM THE FORUM...


No Mudlerk. We are used to robust discussion on this forum. If you find a dissenting opinion offensive, perhaps you should isolate yourself....

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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4 years 1 month ago #550487 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic Covid-19
We haven't eradicated MBovis, what makes you think this govt will manage with Covid? And they supposedly had better tracing with MBovis. Have any of you thought of the economic damage and destruction that has been caused by this lockdown? Have you all kissed goodbye to the economy we knew so well (built on endless money printing and the debt merry go round) and firmly embraced the fact that we are headed for depression for the next 5-10 years? Have you thought about when the closed borders might re-open (at least a year away) and then what might happen then? Have you kissed goodbye to 30%-50% equity in your house/property as prices fall back to sane levels? Can you survive the bank coming asking for full repayment of your loan as a result? (though with the entire world in the shitter it would be a stupid bank that didn't keep people in their over-priced houses paying off the loan - we don't have jingle-mail in NZ - the debt follows you even after you've managed to sell). Kiss goodbye to anything you have in the sharemarket aka Kiwisaver as well.

We're are entering a depression, make no mistake about what that will mean for everyone. The figure of 200,000 unemployed will just be the start as businesses that try to hold on, on the whiff of a promise of 4 weeks lockdown, fall over when its extended out to 6 or 8 weeks. Global tourism is dead along with international students here for education, borders will not re-open easily for people to pop off on holiday like taking a bus ride, those days are over. Freight may move globally (but greatly reduced), we do afterall produce food. It won't be going by plane, as how many airlines will actually survive whats happening. Forget the global share-market rallies of late (after some pretty good drops not seen in decades) - the dead cat is bouncing on a tin plate warmed up by the whiff of Fed and various countries reserve bank interventions. The debt being pilled up by various govts will need to be repaid at some point, hello hyperinflation when that occurs (think Weimar Germany which helped contribute to WW2).

In this case, and with this govts response to save 50,000-80,000 Kiwi lives she has effed the whole 5 million of us.Think about that for a moment. If she truly was trying to save lives why weren't the borders closed back in January when it was obvious that China was losing millions? Our economy was stuffed either way, so why wait for the virus to make it in?

As soon as lockdown lifts do you really believe that a virus that has been proven to survive on a hard surface for up to a month will have been eradicated from NZ? Other countries have super-spreaders that have shown zero symptoms and continued spreading it around. NZ has at least one of those sitting at home at the moment waiting for life to get back to "normal" aka, they can move around freely shopping etc.

The only way 5 million are safe is that this virus, just like during the Spanish Flu (not a flu and not form Spain, but instead a pneumonia from China or Hong Kong) and in fact in the case of any pandemic virus, this virus has to sweep through and we have to get it and survive, get it and get hospitalized (then toss a coin), or get it and die. Those are our three options. There is no other way to build immunity in an entire population. You don't build it through isolation. Nor will we build it by waiting for a vaccine that is roughly 18mths away. Think about that, those who pin their hopes on a vaccine - 18mths with our borders closed and no money coming in to the country but what our agricultural industry can sell overseas to countries ravaged far more than we might be - how will they pay? By printing money maybe? So global depression and hyperinflation. Last time we had that scenario we had as a result WW2.

Are you all prepared for lockdown to lift and then one to two months later as cases start to rise again, to go into lockdown again for a month? Rinse and repeat until 60-80% of us have had it and thus our medical system is able to muddle through in the process. That is our future. How many businesses do you think are going to survive that scenario?

Now tell me that this 'cure' is not worse than the virus.

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #550488 by Mudlerk
Replied by Mudlerk on topic Covid-19
An attack on a third party is not a discussion, it's an underhanded snipe. When it's against the idea that people should be kind to each other in adversity, it IS creepy.
While we are at it, the "Spanish flu" actually originated in the state of Kansas.
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by Mudlerk.
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4 years 1 month ago #550489 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic Covid-19
Kilmoon, well said.

As a illustration:
We run a small business from home selling to other small businesses. Our income has been shut off overnight as we are not essential ( though it is essential to us!) We have thousands of dollars owing to us at the end of the month from these small businesses but we have no expectation of receiving much of this money as they are in exactly the same position. We have thousands outstanding in provisional tax payable in April - a debt that will never be forgiven. We have chosen to pay our suppliers (more small businesses) but this has left us thousands in overdraft. The overdraft is secured against our home. The bank will graciously allow us a 6 month holiday on repayments of the mortgage, but will keep accruing interest, so potentially we could end up owing more than the house is worth, assuming we could sell it. We could take the loan the government has offered but that could push us deeper in debt because we don't know when (if ever) things will return to normal, and it has to be repaid within 3 years. We are on the edge of destitution in our 60's because of badly thought through draconian measures that will penalise not only us but a whole country.

We know who will die from this virus - it will mainly be the old and the already sick. These are the people who should have been isolated from the get go instead of millions of economically active "younger" people who are unlikely to become critically ill. ( yes I know, but there will always be outliers)

Talking to people I notice that those who are most enthusiastic about the lockdown are those least likely to suffer the consequences.
I have a friend with an underlying illness, who is relieved we are in lockdown as she now feels safe. I asked her why she didn't self isolate as she was ill and she said she couldn't afford to (no sick leave or holiday left) Now the country is locked down her income is guaranteed and she can ride it out. ( working for Local Government). When I pointed out she is riding on the backs of thousands of people like me who's livelihood has been trashed she became tearful and accused me of putting money before lives.
I have cancelled my newspaper subscription and no longer watch the news because I can't take any more of the nauseatingly sentimental claptrap peddled by those on huge incomes safely ensconced in their bubbles
So don't tell me " We are in it together" because we are not.

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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4 years 1 month ago #550490 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Covid-19
It is easy for some to discount "the old and the sick" but many of those people contribute enormously to the good of our society, if not so much to the economy as they head for retirement. I have, amongst my acquaintance, at least a dozen people who would fit either or both of those descriptions. I wouldn't begin to value a human life against someone else's livelihood or a government fiscal package and I am very uncomfortable with people being discounted in this way. If any of them is knocked off their perches by C-19, they will be sorely missed by those who know them and their influence will be lost in a much wider context.

I'd also argue that traceability within NAIT for M.bovis was not easy nor sure and the ability to ask people where they've been and with whom they may have come in contact is a damned sight more reliable for contact tracing. That infected cow couldn't tell you about the unrecorded mixing in someone's yards along the way even if they had the correctly registered tag; but the infected person can tell you there was a bus trip, a cuppa in that cafe at that time, etc.

There would have been a huge outcry had the borders been immediately shut. That would have been the best thing but I doubt the government would have succeeded in getting this done any quicker. People need to be able to see the danger in their own neighbourhood before they take restrictions seriously, even though how this will turn out is demonstrated in all its hues across the world already. Kaitāia is an example presently, where reports say people are taking little notice of the 2m rule, heading out to the supermarket every day, just as they always do - and it doesn't help that the instructions are to "shop normally" because that is normal for great numbers of people.

Personally I'm staying home for as long as we can possibly manage it.
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4 years 1 month ago #550491 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Covid-19
I'm with Ruth re waiting to get a bull into the works! We booked him in before all this hoo ha started and even then the wait would be 2 months, that was a month ago, I cannot see him going for at least a month.We are weaning next week and have some cows to go as well, but may have to wait for them to go now too.

As we are now literally 'locked down' here we shouldn't even go to the farm. Yes they have locked the front gate on us oldies to keep us safe! Actually we do have the code to the front gate but since our farm help returned from his driving job Wednesday night we are off the farm check roster!

All this talk about carrying ID from your boss if you are classed as essential in case you get stopped by police. I'm still wanting to know what farmers and horticulturalists have to carry to prove they are an 'essential worker' on business travelling between properties or off to collect essential supplies for the farm!

The facial eczema spore count round us went up to 170,000 again on Thursday, after being below 10,000 for 2 weeks!!!. Urgent call to Farmlands Friday for more zinc as we had run out and thought all was well to stopl. They couldn't have been more helpful returned email order with a pick up time and to say stay in the vehicle while they loaded the bag of zinc (oh and some fence insulators) to keep the farm staff busy !

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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4 years 1 month ago #550494 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic Covid-19
Ruth, I wasn't "discounting" the old and the sick - I said they should have been protected from the outset. We knew from the China experience they were the most vulnerable. We are now in the situation where the actual sick are being shunted aside for the hypothetical sick. My OH has recently been diagnosed with a heart condition. He was on the waiting list for an echocardiogram and received the appointment, only to have it cancelled on Thursday. Let's hope he doesn't die in the meantime. As you can see, we are also in the "old and sick" category!

So the OP asked what you are doing about the virus?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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4 years 1 month ago #550495 by ZummersetGirl
Replied by ZummersetGirl on topic Covid-19
What I am wondering is why so many people have been tested yet we have had relatively few positive results especially as the criteria is quite strict for being swabbed. Are people “fibbing” about symptoms to get tested to check whether their sniffle is Covid? The mature, immunocompromised (like my husband) and/or chronically ill will always be the ones who die from infections such as flu, pneumonia or sepsis rather than any other person although there will always be outliers. The border should have been closed earlier; getting the over 65 and other eligible patients to have the flu vaux ASAP is making them break quarantine and however careful the nursing staff are whilst vaccinating there is an increased risk to people just because they aren’t at home; people wearing masks in public is a waste of time - masks have a very short time-of -use and most people don’t wear them correctly ( having your nose poking over the mask is a point in case). When I was at Wellington airport people were removing them to talk, pulling them down to hang around their neck or touching the mask front and then touching other objects. For Covid not to be a problem at least 80% of people need to be immune to it and isolation is just to reduce the numbers of people getting it all at the same time. Who’s to say what is the best course of action as both ways are unpalatable.

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4 years 1 month ago #550496 by kate
Replied by kate on topic Covid-19
I can't see that the choice is between this lock down and normality, or even normality with 50k-80k extra deaths. There's nothing normal about a deadly virus infecting as much as 89% of the country. People would not keep the economy running smoothly in those circumstances. They'd be looking after sick relatives, mourning the dead, dodging the bodies in the streets and staying home for fear of being next. This virus has stuffed the economy - not just of NZ but most of the world. As I see it the choice is to either stuff the economy and keep people well or stuff it and let them suffer and die.

The people who would suffer most would not just be the old and infirm, who I absolutely think are worth protecting by the way. It would also be the health care workers, rest home workers, front line workers in every industry and their families. With an overwhelming number of cases and little protection doctors and nurses overseas are literally dying while trying to help.

Flattening the curve is also not just about the stopping the spread of the virus but about keeping our health service available for the rest of us if we get heart problems or diabetes or hurt in car crash or get kicked by a stroppy cow.

The virus is not going to magically go away and a vaccine is far off and I doubt any of us will be heading overseas regularly any time soon but while not having a lock down might push the economic impacts a month further down the line the cost of doing that, in personal terms, is not worth it in my view.

This I think is the start of a whole new world. If we lose compassion it's not a world that I want a part in. That compassion is for people who lose loved ones and anyone that loses their business.

I think the message is right - 'be kind'

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