Any ideas on this lamb. UPDATE

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6 years 2 months ago #538962 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic Any ideas on this lamb.

If they're not good enough to produce an equal or better next generation, why are they in my herd?


Ruth, I have to laugh.....because I agree. It sounds like I'm bloody good, but I also sometimes have let myself down by keeping a daughter just because her mum is/was so good that I'll give her a try. In the end I'm left asking myself why I did I damn well do that? Did I really think the outcome was really going to be different, just because this ewe was from a favourite?

In saying that, I have an old 10.5yr ewe who is most of the flock. She produces the best lambs, but her daughters are hit and miss on their lambs. So over the past decade I've learnt to be really harsh with her daughters and only keep the best offspring coming through. She has certainly earned her retirement, and whilst her teeth are in good shape (no lost ones yet, and just the start of wear showing) she can amble around eating all the apples she likes, shes well and truly earned it.

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6 years 2 months ago #538965 by kate28
Replied by kate28 on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
If it were me and provided she is as you say, happy, skipping around, eating well & acting on the most part as a normal sheep, showing some improvement & not in pain or discomfort, I would hold off on the culling for now & see how she goes. Each year we seem to get one lamb that dosnt seem to do as well as the rest & is often described as scrawny- it will usually be born normal size but as it gets older it dosnt keep up growth with the rest. We keep an eye out, make sure its drenched, has access to plenty of feed, eating & appears to be doing normal things and if it shows any signs of going down hill we cull & dispose but most of the time it will grow (slowly) and eventually goes in our freezer as perfectly fine hogget or slightly older. (I'm not suggesting eating something that looks sick, by the time ours get to freezer you wouldnt pick which one it was without knowing) I wouldn't breed from it.

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6 years 2 months ago #538966 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Yes the vet has seen her, she came to check on her sheep grazing here and I showed her the lamb.
She has also seen the photos and has not suggested I put her down.
I do cull sheep for health reasons, - bad feet, daggy backsides, flock health is important.
Because i am not farming commercially, as well as being understocked, I can afford to carry some extras that I dont breed from.
As I have already said, I have seen a great improvement in her and will keep on with the treatment I am giving her to see if the improvement continues.

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6 years 2 months ago #538967 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Very correct by me :-). I know that sheep can die of something that seems very minor, and can live with horrendous injuries if treated correctly. None of the sheep and goats that have had broken bones or that have been ripped open by dogs have resented me helping them, and they most certainly have not borne long-term grudges against me. As with humans, every animal has a different and probably variable pain threshold. One of my granddaughters fell off a fence, got up, and a few days later complained of an aching shoulder which was a broken collarbone. If it had been the other granddaughter she would have been wingeing right from the fall and for weeks later.
But I do kill my cows when they get to eleven years old, because by then their hip joints are thoroughly worn, and will give a lot of pain if left until they are older.
Feet and eye injuries in sheep, goats and donkeys are incredibly painful. These animals do remember the treatment to correct the problem, and thoroughly object to the next hoof or eye treatment. But after their feet or eye/s have been fixed, they object much less to being treated.
I do cull for entopian/entropian eyelids, but only after the lamb has been treated and is ready for the works. The ram that caused it gets culled before the next mating.
I'm very angry that I used to humanely kill animals that could be cured :-((.

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6 years 2 months ago #538973 by Ronney
Replied by Ronney on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
All I can say is that if your vet, who also happens to have been the only person to have seen this lamb, has not suggested you put it down, she has no concern for it's on-going welfare. I'm quite sure you will monitor the situation with the passage of time.

Frankly, I don't see what breeding had to do with anything as at no point did Muri suggest she wanted to breed from this lamb! So where were you all coming from? And Ruth, I did not "agree" with Muri as you suggested as there was nothing to agree to, I came at it from another angle. I haven't spent a large part of my life with sheep and learnt nothing at all. I am quite well aware of the masking abilities of not only ruminants but of all animals with dogs being the best of the lot.

Cheers,
Ronnie
Ronnie

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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #538974 by Mudlerk
Replied by Mudlerk on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
I didn't take any of Ruth's remarks as trying to get at you, Ronney...we're all on the same side here, trying to help someone and their animal.
As for the vet not suggesting to euthanise the lamb and Muri not saying she intended to breed from it, 'absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence'...the vet did not say the lamb would recover, nor did Muri say she had ruled out breeding from it.
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Mudlerk.

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6 years 2 months ago #538976 by jeannielea
Replied by jeannielea on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
The question here is really that Muri was puzzled and asked for suggestions - as we all do at times. We also know that Muri has posted often and doesn't seem irresponsible.. So since a vet has seen the lamb and Muri is keeping a close eye on it we can assume the lamb is happy and growing. If things changed and it's condition deteriorated then he can take action. I'm sure the advice offered here has all been considered and it certainly offers useful points for when we have unusual problems.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ronney, muri

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6 years 2 months ago #538983 by iSor
Replied by iSor on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Muri, you didn’t say what the treatment was that you were giving your lamb, you must have had a hunch as to what to treat her for, whether it was a urinary, gut or a liver related problem, just curious if it was a drench or something else.

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6 years 2 months ago #538986 by Muz1
Replied by Muz1 on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
The stance to me looks like constipation which may have passed if improvements are apparent.

Everything Must be Somewhere

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6 years 2 months ago #538987 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Muri said "She spends a lot of time with her back legs stretched out when she is just standing", which implied a longer-lasting condition.

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6 years 2 months ago #538994 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
I get the feeling that the problem is gut related as now she has a normal stance , except when defecating.

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6 years 1 month ago #539188 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Two weeks down the track, her stance and tail carriage is normal.
I didnt discuss treatment as I was sceptical myself, but an idea suggested by a neighbour who had used it on her horse with gut issues.
I drenched her several times a week with kombucha.
Sounds unusual I know, hence hadnt mentioned it previously, I could hear the groans of using such a method.
The changes in her stance started within several days of the first dose

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #539189 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
Probiotics. Lots of people use them.

If you ever butcher her, I'd still like to hear what her gut looks like. Your initial description read as though she'd looked that way for some time and certainly her condition is far worse than any animal I'd want to keep long-term.
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Ruth.

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6 years 1 month ago #539190 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Any ideas on this lamb.
There's a lot we don't know about fermented foods and drinks, but yeasts are important for all sorts of things, so why not the gut.

I'm glad your lamb is now looking comfortable and most likely "normal"

I read a story once about a Prisoner of war who was shot by the Japanese but the bullet passed through him. He was left lying on the beach in a very serious condition beside his dead companions, making no sound but letting the tide bob his head around so he could look up the beach to see if the soldiers had gone. When darkness came he made his way into the bush and found shelter in an abandoned shack. The only thing in the shack was a teapot full of old tea covered in green mould. He drank that and slowly healed. I think the book was called "Behind bamboo" A true WW2 story.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 1 month ago #539191 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Any ideas on this lamb.

Ruth wrote: Probiotics. Lots of people use them.

If you ever butcher her, I'd still like to hear what her gut looks like. Your initial description read as though she'd looked that way for some time and certainly her condition is far worse than any animal I'd want to keep long-term.


Yes she had been like that for some time, you are right. I will see how she goes, She is one of the most difficult sheep I have ever had to handle, she is so strong and wiry, and battled me every inch of the way so drenching her became a bit of a nightmare.
She is definitely the leader of the pack with the young lambs, initiating play times and paddock gallops and always wants to keep going after the others have stopped.
She definitely has a strong life force
I appreciate all the ideas and advice thanks, its a bit easier when you can see an animal and can evaluate the animal herself, not just photos of her

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