Schistosome

More
6 years 6 months ago #535762 by Ronney
Schistosome was created by Ronney
The correct name for an inside-out calf. I had never seen this until today.

Checked the cows this morning, all well. Went to move 8 cows this afternoon and all was not well. Simmy didn't get up and when there was a gap in the wind, I could hear her moaning. Let the others out and walked down to have a look. She struggled to get up as I came towards her but couldn't do it. Went behind her and there is what looked like a prolapse. Beyond me, didn't even try to do anything about it and went back to ring the vet. He was out on another call and it was a good hour before he was able to get to me.

At a glance, he too thought it was a prolapse but when he got into it, decided it was the birth sac - except he couldn't break it. We had to walk to where the cow was as it was impossible to have got a vehicle there so had the minimum of gear. Thankfully I had a pocket knife and he was able to break and then cut it. When he got inside her he could find four feet, a head and a tail all in the same area. The prognosis was not good as it seemed we had an inside-out calf. The options were not good either. It can be pulled but because of the shape of the calf, most times this ends up in tearing the cow, or a caesarean can be done and as she was already down this wasn't a good option either.

We opted to pull and it came away surprisingly easy but I've never seen anything like it and the vet said he'd never seen one like that - he apparently sees about one a year. What he'd felt during the internal was what there was - four feet, tail and head all bunched together with the skin from the back half folded over the front half and all the guts, ribs etc. exposed. What he had initially thought had been the birth sac was in fact the skin of the calf and we could see where he had cut it. Between the four of us involved, none had taken a camera but he went back for his phone and will send a photo through.

Simmy was filled up with Calcium Borogluconate (or whatever they use today), AB's and anti-inflams. I've just been to check her and she's still not up which is a real worry. She's eaten all her nuts and grain, drinking and tucking into hay when I left, is bright and talkative and made two efforts to get up while I was there but couldn't quite make it. Fingers crossed.

Now to do some research as to whether Neospora might have had a part to play in this.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535765 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Schistosome
Oh no, not our Simmy!
Hope she manages to come right, good sign she is eating and drinking.
Will be interested in a photo.

Was she due to calve or was it sort of aborting? Glad you were able to extract it without further trauma to Simmy-well done the vet and you!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535767 by Betheder
Replied by Betheder on topic Schistosome
We had a goat kid like this born about 12 years ago. But it was born relatively easily, with gut-end-first, head-&-four-legs-end trailing out behind... all inside a completely intact birth sac. Also being the 2nd of triplets, size was more favourable, and it's mum was already occupied with kid #1. #3 kid came out close behind #2 so we never even showed the doe the middle one. We never took a photo of it, but in retrospect I really wish we had!
We had it easy - I can only imagine how difficult it could be to deliver when presented in the opposite direction.

I'm always interested in any information about this! They say it is genetic, but we blamed it on something else at the time (possibly incorrectly), so blissfully repeated the same mating the next two seasons (with no problems)...

I certainly hope your cow makes it up again soon!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535768 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Schistosome
Goodness Ronnie, what a thing to happen! Glad you got it all out without too much trauma for Simmy.

Look forward to hearing that she's up on her feet again. I haven't come across any specific reference to that issue with Neospora but there are references to the possibility of deformed calves with it, so perhaps that deformation might occur.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535776 by kate
Replied by kate on topic Schistosome
What an amazing thing to happen, and how lucky that it could be born without surgery. I hope Simmy is recovering well.

Web Goddess

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535780 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Schistosome
These things are always a bit of a worry, Ronnie. It's good that you and the vet managed to get onto it in time - here's hoping for a quick recovery for Simmy.

It's actually known as Schistosomus Reflexus (A Schistosome is a blood fluke worm - similar name but an unrelated condition). The neighbour had one a couple of years back in one of his dairy cows and the vet had to basically cut the foetus in two to remove it. It seems there is no known cause. Genetics is a theory but doesn't seem to have been verified.

Do keep us informed!

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535782 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Schistosome
I witnessed one on a farm where I used to work. This one was folded in half in front of hips and we couldn't make out why there were 4 hooves present, so for a start we thought she had twins trying to come at the same time. The nose seemed a long way back and the cow was obviously in trouble. When the owner pulled out a handful of liver, alarm bells rang so we got her to the yards and called the vet.
He was a very good vet and cut the calf up internally, with his saw wire enclosed in two lengths of tubing, so he didn't cut anything vital. It was a case of feel, place cutting wire, check again then saw. The calf came out in 4 pieces. I didn't get photos either. She was one of several heifers he bought in from a clearing sale. One of the others delivered a calf that had no eyes at all but had indentations in the skin where the eyes should have been, and it had no tail, its spine ending just behind the hips, so the calf's anus was up on its back, forward of the pelvis.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535784 by Ronney
Replied by Ronney on topic Schistosome
Thank you for the replies and thoughts. Simmy, being Simmy, they are appreciated.

Yes Sue, she was due to calve so it was full term. The vet said it would have been alive right up until things went haywire with the birth and it broke free from the placenta. For those who don't know, Sue named Simmy. This cow has had a chequered history, not only with her own birth but with those of her calves.


Simmy has been bright and chipper all day and making valiant attempts to get up and not quite making it. I rang around to try and get a digger in to lift her - a digger because that's the only thing that will get to where she is. Of course they are all at work, I had no cell phone numbers and it's surprising how may answerphone messages don't give a contact cell phone. Anyway tonight I found somebody and he will be here at 9.00am - he has to go and pick his digger up from wherever he's been working. I'm hoping against hope it won't be too late as I've just come back from her and she's not anywhere near as bright as she was earlier.

Photo's still haven't come through so will chase vet up about them and give an update tomorrow - hopefully a positive one.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535785 by tonic
Replied by tonic on topic Schistosome
Sending good wishes from here also, I hope the digger can get her up and about again!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535786 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Schistosome
Too late now to ask if you want the sling again?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535789 by Ronney
Replied by Ronney on topic Schistosome
Thank you Ruth, I do and have just tried to ring you. Will try again.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535797 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Schistosome
See, you go out for five minutes and you miss something!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535803 by Ronney
Replied by Ronney on topic Schistosome
First, thanks to Ruth and Stephen for the use of their sling, and Stephen's confirmation that we did actually have it on correctly.

It's been a long and exhausting day. In short, we spent 7 hours with her today. She would try to stand on her own but when we lifted her she just hung there making no attempt at all. The digger had to leave as it's the livelihood of it's owner so that meant we were back in the same place - she's still not standing, we still can't get her out of where she is because it's too wet - if we could I'm positive I could get her up and walking even if it took two weeks - I've done it before when everybody told me I was an idiot. So this evening I rang my other digger driver and he'll be here at 8 in the morning with his rifle and digger. The only ray of hope is that he will have a look at the lay of the land and see if he can carry her out to somewhere more accessible to our tractor in which case I would be able to raise her every couple of hours for 10 minutes or so and let her back down again.

And this is the bit that is so hard - I picked a sack of grass this evening from Kevin's vege "garden" and she chowed it back. I've just come back from checking she was upright and comfortable and she was sitting contentedly chewing her cud and some distance from where she had been a few hours before. A sick animal does not chew it's cud. The sling is now over her back rather than under her so she is continuing to make efforts to stand. A sick animal does not chew it's cud and does not continue to try and stand. However, I am also very much aware that there is more than general health involved when it comes to a downer cow.

So, that's where I'm at. Flip side of the coin is that in these nocturnal ramblings I discovered we have a hill full of glow worms. Thousands of them and quite beautiful.:)

Cheers from the no-so-cheerful
Ronnie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535804 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Schistosome
Well good news Simmy is hanging in there and cudding, not so good news with the ground conditions you can't get her her closer to home and more easier ground and regular lifting help.
Hang in there both of you, you have done it before, you can do it again and get her up.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #535805 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Schistosome
I reckon if they're moving and eating, there's still rather a lot of hope. A cow who gives up on eating and drinking is out of luck but it sounds like Simmy isn't that.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.152 seconds