Sick Toggenburg Goat

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6 years 9 months ago #534149 by Sande
Sick Toggenburg Goat was created by Sande
Hi
I have a Toggenburg doe that is really not well. She is about 10 months old. I have had the vet to see her yesterday, he can't find any infection or tummy problems. He checked her mouth said her wee is fine a good colour. He didn't suggest that she might have worms but I give her garlic thought that might cover that. She was drenched in April. She is black and white. I noticed her tongue is blackish is that normal?
She has been unwell since Saturday so has been 6 days and not much improvement she usually loves goat nuts but nibbles a couple and that is it. She just picks. She did eat a few pine needle off branches I cut off our trees that's about the only thing she has eaten ravenously. She is usually very vocal but not any more. She has a mate another Toggenburg doe who is perfectly healthy.
I have been syringing acidophlus yoghurt with a bit of honey into her she sucks it up as though she is enjoying it. I have been mixing a clove of garlic in a bit of yoghurt and putting that into her mouth she manages to chew and swallow some.
She is getting very thin spends most of the day in her hut. I am worried about her now that the weather is horrible. Any advice would be appreciated.
I love her dearly she is very affectionate.
Can anyone suggest what else I can do?

Regards
Sande

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6 years 9 months ago #534150 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Start off with getting her some very good quality meadow hay. Goats need roughage in their diets and that will help her keep tummy working and at the very least will be warm for her to lie on if she doesn't eat it.
You could try tempting her with some carrots cut into fingers, (My goats adore carrot) Make sure she has easy access to fresh water. Have a critical look around where she has access and look for possible toxic plants such as agapanthas which can cause severe irritation and damage to the rhumen.
Did the vet take any bloods away for testing. Bad weather can bring on pneumonia and there may be very few symptoms except for the tail down and more rapid breathing. Another possibility given her physical state is Johne's. You need to talk with your vet, preferably one well schooled in goats and their care.
Is her poo normal? Any sign of loose motions could be worms, what colour are her gums? They should be a good healthy looking pink. Let us know how you get on.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 9 months ago #534152 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Thanks Stikkibeek!

The vet said she didn't have pneumonia. And no he didn't take any bloods! He took her temp and looked at her bottom said it was all healthy looking. No loose bowel movements! I tried her with the carrot and she ate two sticks carrot then didn't want anymore. I gave her a bucket of green pine needles and she is eating that. She has fresh hay and barley straw for bedding . She has fresh water with Apple cider Vinegar in it. She has always had access to salt mineral block. She was standing when I went to her hut. I am wondering should she be on her own, should I take her mate out and put her with the angoras? She might eat more if the other one doesn't go for the food all the time. I will have a look at her gums tomorrow!

Thanks
Sande

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6 years 9 months ago #534154 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Where are you? At this time of the year, my goats get very sick very quickly from Ostertagia worms, sometimes without getting a dirty bum. One of our pets seemed fine in the evening and was dead next morning :-(. If garlic was a wonderful anthelmintic then there would be no need for the real drugs that work. Garlic might slow down some worms from getting established in the gut, but it will not kill a widespread infection :-(
Very, very urgently get two doses of an albendazol based drench that does not have levamisol in it. Give one dose tonight and the other dose in two days. If she has worms then haste is necessary. If she does not have worms then the drench won't hurt her UNLESS IT HAS LEVAMISOL IN IT.

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6 years 9 months ago #534156 by kate
Replied by kate on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Hi Sande, sorry to hear about your goat.

First please give her a good drench - garlic and other such things are not enough if she has an infestation and she is obviously very sick so even if worms weren't the initial problem she'll be very susceptible to getting them now.

Second, try to find somewhere that sells Vigest. This is a supplement that can keep them alive until they get their appetite back, I give it to my goats if they need it. I've had goats that wouldn't eat at all and have come back to full health. Vigest has vitamins, minerals etc and is an appetite stimulant.

As said, give her good quality hay and if you can get some nice greenery (check it's not toxic!) then offer her that. Mine love poplar, willow, tree lucerne. Make sure she has clean water at all times. If you can find some, pull up long grass and offer her that. When they're unwell they will pick at food and you need to make sure she has something to eat at all times.

Keep her warm and if she's not better on Monday then consider taking her back to the vets. My very first goat was under the weather and I took him to the vet who checked him out and said he was fine. Two days later I took him back as he was worse and he had pneumonia!

Good luck and let us know how she is getting along...

Cheers
Kate

Web Goddess

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6 years 9 months ago #534158 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Thank you so much Kate!
Yes I will take back to Vet if no better on Monday. What would be the best drench? I think I will take her mate Jazz out and leave Breeze (sick one) on her own as Jazz jumps in and eats what I put there for them and Breeze stands back. I kept them together for warmth reason Hoping Jazz would keep her warm at night. I will get some Vigest and give to her as well.

Thanks heaps
Sande.

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6 years 9 months ago #534160 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Kate where can I buy Vigest please??

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6 years 9 months ago #534162 by spoook
Replied by spoook on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
Your local feed store may carry it, if not get them to get it for you. You can get it on-line if not local.
Do you have a coat you could keep her warm with?

There are no bad questions only those that are not asked.
"You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"

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6 years 9 months ago #534163 by kate
Replied by kate on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
I buy Vigest from PGG Wrightson's in Whangarei but not all rural stores sell it...some vets may sell it. I don't know why it's not more widely used as it is amazing! I've just had a look and Farmlands have it listed as a product so maybe start there.

Talk to your vet about an appropriate drench. I have heard that the latest research suggests starting with a triple drench, which we used to assume was the last resort. But your vet will know the local conditions and advice appropriately.

There are two schools of thought about goats. One is that they are wimps and go downhill and die quickly with very little wrong with them, the other is that they're hardy and don't show symptoms until they're just about dead. I think the latter is true but either way a sick goat is a real problem.

If the vet took her temperature and didn't give her antibiotics then I assume her temperature was normal so she shouldn't be fighting an infection. Having said that, in my experience, once a goat is 'down' they're much more likely to pick up an infection, and worms so keep a close eye on her.

Goats can get very stressed and depressed if they're alone. Is there some way of having the two goats in together but separate? We have some really handy small mesh gates that mean a goat can see the others but can have her food to herself. If they're in a shed you could use a piece of plywood, an old gate or even a tarp or something similar. I've attached a photo of our kidding pens which we set up to keep the new mums and kids together and well fed.

Good luck!

Web Goddess
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6 years 9 months ago #534166 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
I will go to Wrightsons and/or Farmlands for Vigest tomorrow. Our internet is shocking tonight and I couldn't get Farmland to open. lol.
That sounds like a good idea to gate her off from Jazz I feel she could be a bit depressed now she loves a cuddle tho. I think she would miss Jazz if I took her away.

If she is low wouldn't drenching her be harmful or kill her. We have drenched our Gotland sheep in the past when they were low and they died, so I am hesitant to do that. We have had success giving our sheep Apple cider vinegar instead of drenching them with chemicals. Her temp was normal. I gave her a good dose of ACV this afternoon so will be interesting to see if there is any change in the morning. Of course it has to be done more often.

Thanks everyone I take everything on board. I will talk to a different vet next time.

Sande

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6 years 9 months ago #534168 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
I seem to have lost the last reply about the wormer! Could that person please post again I must have clicked something I shouldn't have and it is gone I really interested in what you said. name was........ridge I think

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6 years 9 months ago #534169 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
LongRidge found your post thanks heaps will get onto that tomorrow.
We are in Ashley Sefton area.

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6 years 9 months ago #534170 by Sande
Replied by Sande on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
LongRidge

Can you please give me a brand or name of a wormer that is "abendazol based drench which does not contain Levamisol' please,It will be much appreciated.

Cheers
Sande

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6 years 9 months ago #534171 by kate
Replied by kate on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat

Sande wrote: If she is low wouldn't drenching her be harmful or kill her. We have drenched our Gotland sheep in the past when they were low and they died, so I am hesitant to do that. We have had success giving our sheep Apple cider vinegar instead of drenching them with chemicals. Her temp was normal. I gave her a good dose of ACV this afternoon so will be interesting to see if there is any change in the morning. Of course it has to be done more often

Sande


ACV is not an anthelmintic in that is does not kill parasites. It's a general tonic. It's a bit like taking vitamin C to avoid flu but once you've got flu you need something that will kill the bug. The parasites will keep breeding and damaging your goats health. It's essential to treat it effectively.

The sooner you give drench the safer it will be for your goat.

Web Goddess

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6 years 9 months ago #534172 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Sick Toggenburg Goat
There are 3 common drench "families", and also monepantel but I've never used it with goats so don't know it's toxicity to goats.
Levamisole is a very good drench against worms but .... it has a very small overdose margin in goats, so is more likely to kill a stressed goat (or lamb) than the other two families.
The worms that our goats get are not yet resistant to the -endazole family of drenches, so I try to alternate this drench family with the -ectin family.
With the -ectins, we have made worms that are resistant to any of this family very easily. The -ectins are an incredibly useful drench family because they kill external parasites as well. But the external parasites will also get resistance to the -ectins if the drench is not used carefully.
When drenching, never under dose. That is worse in the long term than not drenching at all. Always overdose slightly, except for drenches that contain levamisole.
Vigest is a fantastic tonic, and will keep for years in it's bottle in a dark, cool place. Administering it is difficult. I make it up with warm water in a 300 ml plastic soft drink bottle and carefully force the animal to drink it by pouring it into the mouth while I hold the chin up.

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