Renting out a parking site to motorhomes

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6 years 11 months ago #532349 by Stikkibeek

Ruth wrote: I wish we'd stop calling it "freedom" camping. It's a freeloader RIP-OFF abuse of our Kiwi politeness which doesn't complain if someone shits in our bushes. In this case not just metaphorically. I can't believe it continues to be facilitated rather than stamped out. How do a load of cheap and careless travellers contribute anything to the communities through which they travel and in which they squat?


Squat being the operative word!:whistle:

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 11 months ago #532350 by CamperMate
Tony, the only backpackers that are confused about where to stay are those that aren't using CamperMate, and there's fewer of those now that we're being promoted on Air New Zealand flights. To make things even more clearer, our app comes in German, Chinese and French in addition to English which is proving to be well liked and information well understood. As responsible and law abiding camping information providers, we pay for a users freedom camping fine if our information is incorrect. So if you hear of a backpacker that's confused point them our way and they can join the 35,000 and growing tourists using our app every day.

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6 years 11 months ago #532351 by Ruth

Alan Gilbert wrote:

Ruth wrote: I wish we'd stop calling it "freedom" camping. It's a freeloader RIP-OFF abuse of our Kiwi politeness which doesn't complain if someone shits in our bushes. In this case not just metaphorically. I can't believe it continues to be facilitated rather than stamped out. How do a load of cheap and careless travellers contribute anything to the communities through which they travel and in which they squat?


You are assuming that freedom camping is always enjoyed by cheapskate foreigners in uncertified cars or vans.
That is not the case.
The NZ Motor Caravan Association has over 50,000 members, the majority of whom have certified self-contained vans, and are responsible campers enjoying their own country. I get very annoyed with people—and local authorities like the Far North District Council and the Taupo mob—who unthinkingly lump all freedom campers together and refuse to acknowledge the fact that responsible campers in certified self-contained vans are not a problem.
I am not ripping anyone off, and I AM NOT A BLOODY FREELOADER.

Wasn't it obvious that I was referring to people who come to the country explicitly to travel as cheaply as possible, who never bother to park next to a toilet facility, who don't have toilets in their cars or vans? I understand your sensitivity but I thought it was plain that I was referring to people who don't care where they leave their doings. No self-respecting Kiwi traveller would do such a thing.

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6 years 11 months ago #532354 by Anakei

Wren wrote:

Anakei wrote: Councils are having to allot parking, with toilets and showers for the freedom campers and the long suffering ratepayer has to pay for them.


I don't think this is true, sorry, or at least I haven't seen anything like this on my travels round the South Island.

Christchurch council trialed allotting a freedom camping site (in a place with existing toilets, no showers were provided) last year (I think) but ditched it relatively quickly because management was costing too much, so the ratepayer was clearly considered in this case. I've not heard of any other sites provided by councils.


I may have misremembered the details of this article :whistle: :oops:
www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/ne...38&objectid=11780209
but it clearly shows the councils like ours have extra costs to manage the influx of freedom campers.

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #532356 by Wren

Anakei wrote:

Wren wrote:

Anakei wrote: Councils are having to allot parking, with toilets and showers for the freedom campers and the long suffering ratepayer has to pay for them.


I don't think this is true, sorry, or at least I haven't seen anything like this on my travels round the South Island.

Christchurch council trialed allotting a freedom camping site (in a place with existing toilets, no showers were provided) last year (I think) but ditched it relatively quickly because management was costing too much, so the ratepayer was clearly considered in this case. I've not heard of any other sites provided by councils.


I may have misremembered the details of this article :whistle: :oops:
www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/ne...38&objectid=11780209
but it clearly shows the councils like ours have extra costs to manage the influx of freedom campers.


But they don't HAVE to allot parking for freedom campers, or provide toilets and showers, as you first stated. Each council can make their own bylaws. And in fact a quick search online tells me that there isn't any showers provided at the two freedom camping spots in Rotorua mentioned in that article. So sorry, you have not convinced me of your original statement. Any decision-making on how to manage freedom campers is part of a council's day to day business, since they make the bylaws, so I don't see that as an extra cost either.

Muddling our way through 1Ha on the Christchurch Port Hills, with flocks of heritage chickens, Silver Appleyard ducks, Gotland sheep, and Arapawa goats.
Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Wren.

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6 years 11 months ago #532357 by Ruth
Could we just agree to talk about "freedom campers" as those who are coming into the country for trips around in cars/vans without facilities. We're not talking about those of you who do it responsibly in other ways. I see them up here, in a nearby conservation reserve, a dozen or so vehicles at a time, parked up for the night and goodness knows where all that human waste is being left. I bet they're not taking it away with them. Then I run into them in town, brushing their teeth on the street and spitting into the gutter, or washing their undies in the basin in the public toilets.
It offends me that people who can afford to travel so widely, won't budget to continue in a civilized manner in the country they're visiting.

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6 years 11 months ago #532361 by Alan Gilbert

Ruth wrote: Could we just agree to talk about "freedom campers" as those who are coming into the country for trips around in cars/vans without facilities. We're not talking about those of you who do it responsibly in other ways. I see them up here, in a nearby conservation reserve, a dozen or so vehicles at a time, parked up for the night and goodness knows where all that human waste is being left. I bet they're not taking it away with them. Then I run into them in town, brushing their teeth on the street and spitting into the gutter, or washing their undies in the basin in the public toilets.
It offends me that people who can afford to travel so widely, won't budget to continue in a civilized manner in the country they're visiting.


No, Ruth, I'm afraid we cannot agree to to define freedom campers as only those who are visiting New Zealand on the cheap.

The problem with that idea is that local councillors and other busybodies then unthinkingly apply their revulsion at those campers' behaviour to all freedom campers irrespective of their origins and self-contained facilities. This leads councils to ban ALL freedom camping, by anyone, and that is simply unacceptable. Freedom to camp responsibly is part of my birthright.

Yes, there is a problem with small toilet-less vans hired by impecunious foreigners with no manners. The problem is with the get-rich-quick hire companies, of course, but they seem to be sacrosanct, and no government will do anything about regulating them. I have long held the view that it should be illegal to hire out any campervan that is not self-contained to the current standard (which is under revision to strengthen it, by the way). That would fix the problem overnight, but it's too simple a solution for a politician to understand.

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6 years 11 months ago #532368 by Ruth
Please define that birthright. I have never thought of having a right to camp anywhere I choose without regard to the rights or wishes of anyone else, so I don't resonate with nor understand your position.

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6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #532371 by Alan Gilbert

Ruth wrote: Please define that birthright. I have never thought of having a right to camp anywhere I choose without regard to the rights or wishes of anyone else, so I don't resonate with nor understand your position.


Ruth, please read my post again.

It says Freedom to camp responsibly is part of my birthright.

Responsibly does, of course, mean taking into consideration the circumstances. It does not mean disregarding the rights or wishes of anyone else.
Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Alan Gilbert.

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6 years 11 months ago #532377 by tonybaker
to me freedom camping is parking overnight anywhere where there are no toilets. I defy anyone to wake up in the morning and not need a pee or maybe a poo! I host Wwoofers frequently and I have yet to see one with a self contained van, so there are hundreds or more mostly young travellers looking for free camping. Our council tried to limit overnight parking but it caused lots of admin problems. Anyway, when they moved on the freeloaders, they just moved down the road a bit.
Not sure what the answer,if any, is?

5 acres, Ferguson 35X and implements, Hanmay pto shredder, BMW Z3, Countax ride on mower, chooks, Dorper and Wiltshire sheep. Bosky wood burning central heating stove and radiators. Retro caravan. Growing our own food and preserving it. Small vineyard, crap wine. :)

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6 years 11 months ago #532381 by Hawkspur
I think the problem with the term "freedom camping" is that many people have only encountered the term when hearing about the cases of irresponsible campers, so for them the term has only negative connotations.

It is hard to counter those with stories of it working well, because those aren't exactly headline material.
There's no profit or outrage from, "Quiet, well-behaved campers move on leaving nothing behind."

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6 years 11 months ago #532384 by Ruth

Alan Gilbert wrote:

Ruth wrote: Please define that birthright. I have never thought of having a right to camp anywhere I choose without regard to the rights or wishes of anyone else, so I don't resonate with nor understand your position.


Ruth, please read my post again.

It says Freedom to camp responsibly is part of my birthright.

Responsibly does, of course, mean taking into consideration the circumstances. It does not mean disregarding the rights or wishes of anyone else.

I still don't understand your birthright assertion. I'm not trying to argue, I just wanted to understand your point of view. I'd still like to.

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6 years 11 months ago #532387 by max2
As an overseas born someone who in the last 15 months has driven the various routes between Nth Waikato and Palmy North, I was really surprised at the lack of publicly available composting toilets at picnic spots. Sure there are places to stop regularly to eat One's own lunch, but no where to relieve yourself properly.

Dare I say but if you are driving in NSW there are (or were in my time) composting toilets on site for public use that were serviced by the council/s.

Would solve a lot of arguing and muck being left behind.

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6 years 11 months ago #532388 by Mustangnin
Sorry but $12 a night less 20% commission is not worth it for us. Having strangers wandering around your property and having no idea who they are, would make me uneasy.

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6 years 11 months ago #532390 by Wren
Ruth - New Zealand is one of the few places I know of where freedom camping (which I define as sleeping somewhere not formally designated as a camp ground) is legal (which you could consider to be a birthright). Here, you can walk up into the hills and pitch a tent and stay the night, and until it became a problem you could drive round and pull up at the side of the road and stay overnight with no problems. I am originally from the UK and you just can't do that anywhere there. It's illegal. I believe the same applies for most of Europe, and I know that in the USA you can only camp in designated campsites in National Parks at least (I'm not sure about outside of National Parks).

Being able to explore is one of the things I love about New Zealand, and when done responsibly freedom camping doesn't cause any problems to anyone. You shouldn't be able to know that anyone has been there. Freedom campers should take everything that they bring. If you only use the term to refer to the freeloaders then what do you call those of us who are responsible about it? I'd prefer the split to be between responsible freedom campers and irresponsible freedom campers.

Hawkspur - I think you've hit the nail on the head there!!

Muddling our way through 1Ha on the Christchurch Port Hills, with flocks of heritage chickens, Silver Appleyard ducks, Gotland sheep, and Arapawa goats.

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