The Un-greening of our countryside

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7 years 5 months ago #526926 by Ruth
lifestyleblock.co.nz/forum/your-place/43343-glyphosate#524608
Nobody was paying the researchers in that case, it was a review of many international studies into its effects, by a NZ agency.

Lots of people felt there was something wrong with the MMR vaccine based on a dodgy study and they were wrong and measles and mumps are more dangerous than being vaccinated.
Lots of people think there's danger in fluoride in the water but their fears are far outweighed by the good it does for people's teeth, which has lifelong positive effects. My mother gave us Fluoride pills when we were kids, because we weren't on a town supply. I'm glad she did; it saves me a lot of pain and money now.
People feel all sorts of things and many people feel things contrary to the science about any of it.

I still don't want to eat glyphosate. But then I don't want to put up with the "acceptable" chemical residues in any of my food, so the milking cow stays!

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7 years 5 months ago #526927 by kiwibrick

Furball wrote: ...and what costs. I must admit, I didn't really realise all the effects that glyphosate has. Just flicking through this paper,
www.omicsonline.org/open-access/detectio...000210.php?aid=23853
there are references to it chelating minerals in plants, being a teratogen, being toxic to DNA, and inhibiting a number of mammalian enzyme pathways. So much for: "it only affects plants". I wouldn't like to be consuming either milk or meat from those cattle.


Was reading through this until I saw it had Serilini as a reference, as soon as I saw that I take this study with a very big grain of salt as it's obviously on the anti-GMO/Glyphosate train en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Séralini_affair

Noticeably all of the so called studies (of course not peer reviewed) on glyphosate levels in conventional produce vs organic produce don't test for residue of some of the nasty organic pesticides which are far more toxic than glyphosate.

muri wrote: The cattle are dairy cattle and are being milked, they have been on the land all the time since spraying
I have also seen a report showing Roundup s not as toxic as some research has shown, but you need to know who is paying the researchers to carry out the research. Suffice it to say, some countries have banned its use altogether so may fell there is something not quite right with its use
I hope they are not making infant formula from milk off this farm. Its totally put my off buying ordinary milk and definitely will switch to organic from now on


It's a common theme for the organic industry, "we want long term studies on GM crops and synthetic pesticides from independent labs!" long term studies appear that don't agree with the organic rhetoric, "they were payed off, this study is lies!", I'd like to see who is paying for all the pro-organic themed studies.

You will find where the 3 (or was it 4) small countries who outright banned it, it was a politically driven ban and not actually backed up by rigorous science that finds it quite safe.
I actually used to be a bit anti-Monsanto, until I actually read the science (peer reviewed of course) and it opened my eyes

Don't get me wrong I'n not likely to spray roundup all over my veggie patch and fruit trees/bushes then eat them, but then I don't have acres and acres of land to weed so I don't need to, the hype about glyphosate, is make no mistake, being pushed by big organic orgs/companies strictly for their financial benefit, it's not about peoples health it's about scaring people enough so they will buy their overpriced products.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ruth

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #526928 by tonybaker
yes, I had a similar experience here when I saw dairy cows grazing a sprayed paddock. It was a town milk farm so I complained to the dairy company and cows were soon gone.
Maybe you should complain to Fonterra?
If you are buying your veges from the supermarket, don't worry about it as you are already consuming plenty of chemicals !

5 acres, Ferguson 35X and implements, Hanmay pto shredder, BMW Z3, Countax ride on mower, chooks, Dorper and Wiltshire sheep. Bosky wood burning central heating stove and radiators. Retro caravan. Growing our own food and preserving it. Small vineyard, crap wine. :)
Last edit: 7 years 5 months ago by tonybaker.

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7 years 5 months ago #526945 by muri

tonybaker wrote: If you are buying your veges from the supermarket, don't worry about it as you are already consuming plenty of chemicals !


I am not so concerned about what I ingest have been eating organic food primarily for 30 years as I grow most of my own.
I buy conventional milk as I drink so little but thats about to change as well.
I am more concerned for those buying it thinking we have a clean green nz

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7 years 5 months ago #526949 by Ruth

muri wrote: ...I am more concerned for those buying it thinking we have a clean green nz

Don't worry about them. They have no idea where their food comes from in any case and little interest. :blink:

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7 years 5 months ago #526954 by Jaybee
I would never buy organic dairy products, because I believe that livestock should have access to modern effective veterinary medical treatment if they need it.

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7 years 5 months ago #526956 by tonic

Jaybee wrote: I would never buy organic dairy products, because I believe that livestock should have access to modern effective veterinary medical treatment if they need it.


Do you know of organic dairy farmers that don't get veterinary help for their cows? The ones I know certainly do!

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7 years 5 months ago #526957 by Jaybee
What do they do with the cows that get treated? Take them out of the organic system?

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7 years 5 months ago #526959 by kate
As I understand it, if an animal needs non-organic treatment then it will get it. It will be quarantined from the rest of the herd for a time and the animal will lose its organic status.

Whatever system you farm under you are obliged by law to treat sick animals appropriately.

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7 years 5 months ago #526961 by Jaybee
Hmm I just remember reading on an organic dairy farming website about how they were treating footrot with copper sulphate bathing and bandages. This is an extremely painful condition that clears up like magic with a shot of penicillin. While it's true most will heal in a couple of weeks without, I know what I'd want if it was my foot.

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7 years 5 months ago #526963 by muri

Jaybee wrote: I would never buy organic dairy products, because I believe that livestock should have access to modern effective veterinary medical treatment if they need it.


You are required as a Certified organic farmer to seek vet help for a sick animal and as Kate said, there are animals taken out of the organic system after they have been treated , depending on the treatment of course.
There are many people who bathe animals feet in copper sulphate , especially horses as well and I dont think people realise how painful that is for the animal concerned so I would agree its terrible treatment Jaybee

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7 years 5 months ago #526964 by spark
You can read BioGro's organic production standard for livestock here:
www.biogro.co.nz/import/default/files/module-5.pdf
See page 21, clause; g. Effect of treatment on certification status

Their other standards are here:
www.biogro.co.nz/standards-modules

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #526980 by Furball
That's very interesting, Kiwibrick. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. From that article Séralini certainly has an agenda where it comes to Glyphosate. However, the paper referenced is not his biassed rat study, but a different paper about placental cell and aromatase effects. There are also a number of other references cited that are not connected with him at all, at least one of which (the mineral chelation one) is from a source favourably disposed to the use of Glyphosate. So it may be a bit harsh to write off all the other references and authors cited as: "On the anti-glyphosate bandwagon" just because one of them is dirty.

As regards testing for other residues being absent - Yes, I agree with you that organophosphates are toxic and are present as food residues, but why should a study on glyphosate residues also test for these? The techniques for testing for different organic chemicals are different, so why should researchers into glyphosate test for a whole bunch of other chemicals as well as the one they are interested in? Might as well say that a medical study on measles should also include flu figures.

If these papers about glyphosate are "being pushed by big organic orgs/companies strictly for their financial benefit" then logically that cuts the other way, too. Monsanto is a very large company, much wealthier than the organic companies. If a small company can buy biassed papers, then presumably Monsanto can and is doing the same. Not sure how this helps in cutting through propaganda to find the truth...
Last edit: 7 years 5 months ago by Furball.

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7 years 5 months ago #526983 by wandering free
Lots of people think there's danger in fluoride in the water but their fears are far outweighed by the good it does

Not if you are a heavy tea drinker like us poms and depending on the brand, but seeing fluoride content it is never listed on any tea brands it's pot luck.

This is from a US study and uses the 20 mg over 10 years as the safety limit were others say 10 mg over 20 years I have seen lifetime exposure as no more than 4 mg.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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7 years 5 months ago #526995 by Stikkibeek
Mmm. The juries out here on the value of fluoride. Not much point having the best teeth in a secure ward of an old folks home when you have altzeimers!
Doctors have been telling us to throw away our aluminium pots for years, and we all know fluoride is a by product of smelting.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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