Building your own home?

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7 years 7 months ago #526558 by Bog
Building your own home? was created by Bog
Hi all.

What's the story with building your own home? I have architectural plans and am about to submit a building consent application, and I need to state on the form who the builder is and their registration number. I understand I don't have to actually say at this stage who the builder is, but it has to be before I start building. Would that be correct?

I have a good friend who I'd like to build my home. He's 73 and can hire labour and I'd like to assist and learn on the job. He's not registered and I don;t think ever has been, but he's one of the best builders I know. He's built quite a few of the local establishments over the years so I know the quality of his work.

My question is, will the council allow this?

Thank you.

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7 years 7 months ago #526560 by spark
Replied by spark on topic Building your own home?

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #526573 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Building your own home?
This is such a sticky problem, here in auckland there are no builders to be had for love or money and those that are registered, are busy until well into next year.
The reason for changing the rules about building relate to responsibiity, specifically responsibility when there is a failure.
If you do a build and 15 years down the track some parts of it fail, then the person doing the building is responsible, in this case a Licensed builder. Mr 72, no matter how capable, clever, knowledgeable etc cannot be held responsible as he is not licensed and therefore there is no way of ensuring his knowledge is up to scratch.
Because codes and requirements are continually changing, you have no idea if this good builder is up to standard on the codes whereas a Licensed Builder is required to sit exams every two years to upskill his knowledge
This has come about probably after the leaky building issue, it takes responsibility for failure in the building away from Councils and lands it back on your builder.
So the long and short of it all is that Mr 72 can do all the work you require and is within a carpenters area of jurisdiction eg not the septic etc, BUT it must be supervised by a Licensed Builder who will be held responsible
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by muri.

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7 years 7 months ago #526575 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Building your own home?

muri wrote: . . . BUT it must be supervised by a Licensed Builder who will be held responsible


Not according to the rules outlined in that link posted above by Spark, so long as the builder / owner is going to live in it personally and no payments change hands.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

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7 years 7 months ago #526579 by Bog
Replied by Bog on topic Building your own home?
Thanks everyone. What would be considered "restricted building work" according to that link?

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #526583 by Hawkspur
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Hawkspur.

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #526589 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Building your own home?

Rokker wrote:

muri wrote: . . . BUT it must be supervised by a Licensed Builder who will be held responsible


This is a quote from the article Spark has posted
'You cannot carry out all aspects of construction work, even with an Owner-Builder Exemption. There is some specialised building work which must be carried out by a suitably qualified person.'
Below has continued in italics but is not part of the quote above

There is a list of work that cannot be done by the owner builder which is quite comprehensive, to do specifically with such things as water tightness amongst others. you may to re-read that Rokker.
The other issue with owner /builder is you are the buiider and Bog was paying someone - I presume - to do the work and not doing it himself.
If you sell the house, you are still liable for any failure of the work that could occur down the line if it is related to something you were responsible for and it has failed because of the quality of your workmanship.
This is how the Councils now get around being sued for where something fails in a building, they are no longer taking responsibility for building failure.

Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by muri.

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7 years 7 months ago #526595 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Building your own home?

muri wrote: There is a list of work that cannot be done by the owner builder which is quite comprehensive, to do specifically with such things as water tightness amongst others. you may to re-read that Rokker..


Yes, I realise that as an owner builder there are some specialised aspects of the construction that require qualified tradespeople - plumbers, drainlayers, electricians, etc. But as an owner builder you don't need the supervision of a registered builder to do all the other restricted work yourself within the jurisdiction of a carpenter/builder, so long as it will be your own dwelling and so long as you are not paying your family or friends for their help.

BUT - having re-read Bog's opening post, it seems that Mr 73 would be hiring labour to assist with the building. That's where the problem would lie. It would be fine if Mr 73 could obtain unpaid labour from within Bog's family and friends.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

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7 years 7 months ago #526596 by Bog
Replied by Bog on topic Building your own home?
He's a really good mate. I'm sure he'd offer to do it for free and the labour would only be if I'm a slacker on the job. We can just take a little more time, and fewer tea breaks :)

Thanks very much everyone. I really appreciate the information.

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7 years 7 months ago #526610 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Building your own home?
You can do your own electrical wiring as long as a sparky hooks up the meter and checks/signs off the wiring. can cut cost considerably.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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7 years 7 months ago #526615 by Geba
Replied by Geba on topic Building your own home?
You can run your own wiring so long as your registered electrician is PREPARED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR your work at the same level as if s/he did the work themselves, as it's their registration which is on the line. This is at a higher level than 'just checking' your work. In the past I've done wiring, on the basis that my work had to be twice as good to be half as good as the sparky's, because I wasn't a sparky and he was.

Likewise with the plumbing & drainlaying work, the plumber has to be prepared to take responsibility for your work, rather than having done it themselves, for most this is a pretty big ask.

And as for the building work itself - as the building owner you'll have to satisfy the local building inspector at progressive inspections (founds, framing & pre-wrap, cladding, close-in etc) that there is an LBP taking responsibility, or the inspector will not approve the work, and you will have no/void construction insurance and no prospect of a code of compliance and thus future building insurance. YMMV, depending on where you are building, but I'd say if you are anywhere within coo-ee of towns, councils, rules and building inspectors, it's more prudent to follow the rules than not :)

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #526620 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Building your own home?

Geba wrote: . . . And as for the building work itself - as the building owner you'll have to satisfy the local building inspector at progressive inspections (founds, framing & pre-wrap, cladding, close-in etc) that there is an LBP taking responsibility, or the inspector will not approve the work,


Geba, read it again . . .

"Who can do the work? As an owner-builder, family members and friends can help you with restricted building work on your home as long as you are not paying them.
Any restricted building work that is NOT DONE BY YOU or your unpaid friends or family members must be carried out or supervised by an LBP who holds the appropriate licence class. They must also give you a Record of Work."


That statement clearly states that the only building work (other than specialist trades) that needs to be carried out or supervised by a LBP is work that you or your unpaid friends do not carry out yourselves.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Rokker.

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7 years 7 months ago #526623 by arnie.m
Replied by arnie.m on topic Building your own home?
Electricians issue their own certificates of compliance and I presume Plumbers do the same. It seem it is only the building work (water tightness etc) that is an issue here.

arnie
88 Valley
Nelson

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7 years 7 months ago #526640 by spark
Replied by spark on topic Building your own home?
Yes, electricians issue their own certificates of compliance (and if you are building a house, the council will want a copy of this before they issue code of compliance). Certain electrical work is considered to be "high risk" (for example, a new connection to the grid or a new main switchboard) and has to be certified by an electrical inspector as well as the electrician that performed the work.

As far as wiring your own house is concerned, I understand that anyone is allowed to do ELV wiring (Extra Low Voltage = less than nominal 100Vdc or 50Vac). For example. if you know what you are doing, you can do your own off-grid 24Vdc power system, complete with motorhome type 24Vdc LED lights, water pump(s), fridge/freezer, TV, laptop charger, etc and you do not need to have an electrician's practicing license or have your work inspected. However, an inverter and associated 230Vac wiring is "prescribed electrical work". Also, a household ELV electrical system is of course more than capable of starting a fire (think of what happens when you short-circuit a car battery), so you do need to follow best practices to ensure that your ELV wiring is safe...

As far as prescribed electrical work is concerned, if you can find a "tame" electrician, with their consent, you are allowed to work under their supervision:
www.ewrb.govt.nz/assets/EWRB/files/about...tificate-holders.pdf
but as Geba said, they are responsible for your work, so don't be surprised if they will only let you do grunt work like digging trenches, trunning cables and screwing flush boxes into the wall framing.

Another option is to "wire" your own house according to NZECP 51, thought the final connection at the main switchboard must be performed by a licensed electrical worker and your work must be inspected by an inspector:
www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legis...ECP%2051%202004%20Ne


I have a question regarding the mandatory 10 year guarantee under the LBP legislation - does it get discharged by bankruptcy?
Specifically, lets say that you build your own house under the LBP owner-occupier exemption in 2017, and due to deteriorating economic conditions, you are bankrupted in 2019 and the house taken from you and sold in a mortgagee auction. Lets say that you are then discharged from bankruptcy in 2022, and in 2025, once you are starting to sort yourself out again (and less than 10 years since the house was built), that the house turns out to have serious defects arguably due to your poor standard of work (leaky home?) - would your obligations of a 10 year guarantee under the LBP rules be nullified by your having been bankrupted after construction, or, would you be expected to make good on the defects in the home (and quite possibly be bankrupted a 2nd time, for an act that was committed before your first bankruptcy?)

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7 years 7 months ago #526658 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Building your own home?

stikkibeek wrote: You can do your own electrical wiring as long as a sparky hooks up the meter and checks/signs off the wiring. can cut cost considerably.

Geba wrote: You can run your own wiring so long as your registered electrician is PREPARED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR your work at the same level as if s/he did the work themselves, as it's their registration which is on the line. This is at a higher level than 'just checking' your work.


There isn't any need to shout, Geba. And I didn't say or imply that a "check" was visual only as clearly "just checking" does. OH did all the wiring for our shed which included 3 phase. He knew what he had to do, not just because he's practical, but because he discussed with the Sparky the essential elements. When it was ready the sparky ran all the tests (checking) wired the whole electrical circuit into the meter checked the circuit breakers and outlets and signed off the code of compliance. The Inspector had already been to check the pillar box which holds the main meter and a lines company technical person wired in the main line. He checked (tested) all entry points. It still cut our costs considerably.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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