My experience with Barbers Pole and drenches - photos added

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #519255 by muri
Its been a great season here in Auckland for barbers pole, warm, wet humid etc.
While I dont usually drench the ewes - unless I think they need it - the lambs are a different story. They need to build up some immunity.
I have had two lambs with BP issues this season, one a bottle fed and one a ram.
I drenched with Matrix which seemed to help for a while but then not long before I wasnt happy with their condition again.
I re-drenched with Genesis Ultra which is a longer acting drench and saw an immediate improvement in condition, attitude and wait gain that I didnt see with the first drench
So while there is discussion about not using long acting drenches as they help build up drench resistance, in fact the longer acting drenches would be more likely I would imagine to kill off newly emerging worms in a lamb's system than a shorter acting drench?
Last edit: 8 years 1 month ago by muri.

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8 years 1 month ago #519282 by 4trees
Hi Muri, when reading about the drench's when we are purchasing a new batch, some of them kill mature Barbers Pole.and Haemonchos, some only kill inmature, so it seems to be a lot to do with what the drench will cover. It is a sod of a problem. We are prone to it here in the Manawatu, but find if we keep right up to the recommendations for drenching times we seem to keep on top of it and out of 200 odd lambs don't seem to lose any the Barbers Pole/Haemonchos.
Good luck hope the sheep keep up with their good health. Cheers.

Cheers
http:treeandshrub.co.nz
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8 years 1 month ago #519291 by muri
Thanks 4 Trees, I try and run the farm with low chemical inputs and some of the sheep, particularly the wiltshire, have never been drenched.
I find rams are most susceptible to barbers pole as they are quite 'busy' at the time of the year the BP is most active.
I buy my drench from the vets as I tend to think you get a better quality drench from them than what you buy over the counter after having bought in a newly drenched ram [incl BP in the drench] and him contracting BP not long after.
It also probably has a lot to do with the health of the sheep, one of the reasons for avoiding bottle fed lambs where possible

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8 years 1 month ago #519300 by spoook
We used Genesis Ultra about 4 years ago. Suggested 42 days efficacy for sheep, if I remember, and it worked out to be about 30 days for goats. To stop the Barbers Pole worm getting a hold, and in some cases killing, we were drenching to the label.
More fool us. :(
We believe we ended up with a drench resistance problem. We now use other drenches and rotate them to confuse the nasty parasites.

To combat the great season for the worms, we now keep a close eye on the goat's behaviors and colour of the gums etc. It may be more labour intensive but hopefully we are combating the problem, if not keeping it at bay.

We also have had cattle and non-drenched sheep grazing the pasture to help lower the population of parasites and dilute the super worm gene pool. Fingers crossed, as we are having the worst season for perfect worm explosions.

We do keep Startect for emergency cases but would not use it as our "everyday" drench.

There are no bad questions only those that are not asked.
"You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"

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8 years 1 month ago #519305 by muri
I have managed to capture on photo what I consider to be the BP picture, the other Ram was looking rather down last night when I moved the sheep before the deluge.
This morning he was by himself, seemed to be a lot of flies hanging around him but I captured these pictures which said it all






What I saw was a sheep not only on his own when he is a herd animal, but all of the following just standing in the paddock, apart from other clinical signs such as pale membranes
-head down
- back legs slightly out behind him so not standing straight
-slightly hunched back
- ears very low
This was also the picture presented by my other ram who also had BP.
Its worth spending time observing animal behaviour as this sheep was in really good spirits two days ago, or so I believed
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8 years 1 month ago #519318 by LongRidge
I have no doubt that the long acting drenches will be at a concentration in the animal that will kill the bugs for longer. But the very big problem is that the active ingredient will be in the animal for a much longer time at a non-lethal dose. So every worm that is eaten after the drench has reached a non-lethal dose will get a long time to get the changes happen that will make them resistant.
It is my belief that the "quarantine" idea of drenching is far less likely to develop resistance. This method involves drenching twice or three times with a short acting drench, within about 5 days of each drench. I can currently do one better, by using two or three difference drench active ingredients (levamisole, -ectin, or -azole)

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8 years 1 month ago #519333 by muri
Spook, how often did you drench then with the Genesis ultra. I think the withholding period for sheep is actually 52 days

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8 years 1 month ago #519334 by kindajojo
tHats the problem, the long with holding period, so once drenched there is not a lot you can do with them, if trying to finish lambs , good for your base stock, and the drench does not provide protection for the with holding period, so you often have to redrench again so you never seem to get out of the with holding period.

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8 years 1 month ago #519335 by muri
Well actually KJJ, the problem I have found with the shorter with holding period drenches is that in the case of my two rams, both have only last about 5 weeks before they were really crook
In the past - and each season is different and this is one of the worst - I have only ever drenched normally once over the summer. autumn, and the rams twice.
So far the rams have had to be drenched twice and I nearly lost this boy, 5 weeks after drenching

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8 years 1 month ago #519337 by spoook
Muri, we were drenching about every 30 days. :( Not a problem with Barbers Pole worm for ages, :woohoo: then we found some goats were not too good. Took a sample and did an FEC, count was high. End of Genesis Ultra for us for a while.

There are no bad questions only those that are not asked.
"You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"

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8 years 1 month ago #519345 by muri

spoook wrote: Muri, we were drenching about every 30 days. :( Not a problem with Barbers Pole worm for ages, :woohoo: then we found some goats were not too good. Took a sample and did an FEC, count was high. End of Genesis Ultra for us for a while.


I dont think anyone has ever recommended drenching every 30 days, that is the problem, rather than the drench itself.
A withholding period is not a drenching period, it is in fact the life of the drench in the animal.
So, if its 30 days withholding for goats, the drench would be active over that 30 day period, more active at the beginning of the period then reducing in its level of activity incrementally over that time.
The recommended dosing of Genesis ultra is about 6 weeks minimum between drenches and yes its best to change drench families

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8 years 1 month ago #519350 by spoook
30 days was not the withholding period, it was the period of efficacy. After that, the parasites took hold again, much to our dismay.

There are no bad questions only those that are not asked.
"You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"

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8 years 1 month ago #519351 by cowvet
Nope
Withholding period has nothing to do with how long the anthelmintic (or any drug for that matter) is active or working for....it is about food for human consumption and the period of time that must elapse before the product (milk or meat etc) is safe to go back in the food chain for human consumption. When the product can no longer be detected in milk/meat/eggs etc

We have some antibiotics that can be used in lactating animals with no milk withholding - this is because the drug does not cross the blood/milk barrier. So the animals milk is completely clear of the antibiotic while it is actively working and in high concentrations in other parts of the body. Then we have other compounds that may only be at therapeutic levels for 2-3 days but the withholding period for meat is 28 days.

duration of effect is specific to the product being used and how long it remains at therapeutic levels, then you have to factor in the parasites lifecycle, environmental conditions, animal conditions, pasture management. All these factors play a part in the drench interval required.


I love animals...they're delicious
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8 years 1 month ago #519368 by the old ram
G'day,Its my view that the long term solution is rotational grazing and the "culling" of susceptible animals to build a good level of natural immunity in the flock.If you feed a mineral supplement make sure it includes Seaweed Meal(not the liquid one),its natural and includes everything in it ,but it will take time to build up in the animals system.We have used it for over 40 years as apart of our mix ,it is expensive, we use about 50 kg a year at a cost of about $150 au. but thats cheap when you consider the alternative.T.O.R.

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8 years 1 month ago #519377 by muri
My animals are brought up on a natural regime, they get all kinds of minerals and everything a sheep could want - cross grazing, lambs thru the paddocks first, then the ewes and then the cattle again.
They are feed a lot of fodder which helps against worms - chopped up flax, karo, hebe stricta etc
I think propensity to worms is a key as the only sheep it really seems to affect are the Damara rams, they obviously have no immunity to this kind of attack, The ewes seem fine, just the rams. Two friends both lost their Damara rams to BP last year, both showed no signs of it until they were almost dead.
I guess one of the consequences of dealing with an animal which is not part of our long term heritage?

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