"Sunday" on TVNZ

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8 years 5 months ago #516057 by Ruth
"Sunday" on TVNZ was created by Ruth
Did you see it? Did it shock you?

I was appalled, disgusted, sickened. We can all look the other way from the bad stuff and we do. I'm so glad someone isn't.

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8 years 5 months ago #516058 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
Yes, I saw it and was equally shocked.
Despite the emotive talk about poor calves 'torn away ' from their mothers, which as farmers, we know that calves have to be born and removed from milking cows, the brutal treatment of the calves by the truckies and at the abattoirs is inexcusable.

Though the emphasis will no doubt be on 'cruel' dairy farmers when this is spread to overseas customers-the real culprits are the people which handle the calves once they leave the farm.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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8 years 5 months ago #516066 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
Usually when we watch animal activist-originated videos of such things, I can think, well, that's primarily a usual practice over which you're overlaying an anthropomorphic lens. This time there was little in that programme about which I could think the same thing.

Hopefully most farmers remove calves gently - the removal in itself is naturally stressful, as is weaning separation at any age - treating them carefully as the newborns they are. But some do not. There was at least one recording in that piece of a farmer throwing a calf into a trailer, I think. As for the practice of leaving too many calves in an unsheltered trailer on the side of the road and not going back to check that they'd been picked up in good time; that's nowhere near acceptable practise. The animal welfare codes have requirements for the number of hours a calf can be without feed on its way to early slaughter.

Most calves in the dairy industry have long been simply a disposable by-product. That some people treat them like discarded dead stuff while they're still alive is sickening. What do those men do to their own pets, their children and their partners when nobody's looking? The links between animal abuse and the abuse of children and women are well documented.

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8 years 5 months ago #516069 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
Yeah saw part of it before heading off to check the cat trap. I was disgusted at how they were being treated and also didn't think they could be left like that and for that long on the side of road for collection. I also thought that if they filmed in one region then the abattoir and collection trucks were most likely the same guys/firms....what happens in other regions?

But I also thought "ohh goody, SAFE want to destroy another industry in NZ but that's okay, we can import milk from somewhere else and as long as inhumane treatment doesn't happen here in NZ its all okay" - immediately thought of the pig industry and all that pig meat imported from countries with no or bloody low standards compared to here - I don't see SFAE and the other do-gooders complaining about the standards in those countries.
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8 years 5 months ago #516070 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
You make a good point re other countries' standards and imports, but does that let us off putting pressure on awful practices here in our own neighbourhoods? One hopes SAFE will continue to apply pressure here to force change, rather than taking it far and wide - although inevitably that's already happened, the media now being what it is.

But then look at how many people continue to buy cage eggs because they can't afford to choose better.

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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #516073 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ

You make a good point re other countries' standards and imports, but does that let us off putting pressure on awful practices here in our own neighbourhoods?

Ruth, I was just meaning that groups like SAFE agitate around animal industries in NZ but when they cause damage to that industry (to the extent that farms close which leads to more product from elsewhere being imported to make up the shortfall so to speak) you don't see them stand up and go "hang on, you can't eat it from that country either as they're worse than NZ". Videoing a plastic wrapped package in a supermarket just isn't emotive enough I guess. It seems to me that they would be happy with no agricultural industry in NZ, every animal-based product being imported, and that way they can say we're got a good animal husbandry record in NZ....by completely ignoring the animal husbandry practices overseas.

I'm not condoning the practices that were shown on those videos (I'm not a diary farmer nor do we have cattle) but I'd like to know if they were filming in one region and thus which firm(s) were involved as they need to be kicked up the backside first, then look at the other regions and find out what's happening throughout NZ. About the only thing we can all agree on NZ-wide is that calves are taken off their mums within hours of birth.....its how they're then handled which is the issue, and if there are guidelines/laws in place for their welfare then someone has definitely dropped the ball in terms of that and legal punishment should occur. By the way leaving calves on mum for longer and thus the bond is stronger would in my mind be even more cruel. Is there a law to say how old they must be before they can be transported, i.e. 3 or 4 days old?

But then look at how many people continue to buy cage eggs because they can't afford to choose better.

Umm I've worked in two chicken/egg farms in NZ and without going into numerous details of those conditions I'll take caged over free range any day. The worst we had to contend with was the smell in the caged barns...the free range barns (with large outside areas) were an eye opener to be honest - lets just say that hens don't always lay in the provided boxes and ALL eggs collected went into the food chain.
Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by Kilmoon.

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8 years 5 months ago #516074 by kate
Replied by kate on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
I didn't see it (no TV) but from what I've heard reported it is inexcusable. :angry: :angry:

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8 years 5 months ago #516077 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
Kilmoon, you make some very good points about both the dairy industry and the poultry industry!

The point you make about taking calves off their mothers early, yes the sooner the better-or at least as soon as they can stand and had the first drink or two of colostrum. I think the practice would probably be within 12 hours of birth. Yes, they have to be at least 4 days old and have a dry navel I think, and a minimum weight before they are transported and also fed within a certain period.
The piece on the programme about not having access to water-they wouldn't drink it at that age anyway, and re probably being fed twice a day anyway-so interval between feeds likely to be 12 hours normally. The objection is them being crammed into a space for a long time, in full sun with no shelter-I thought that practice of leaving them on the roadside had been banned too?

I believe SAFE are basically vegans so object to any sort of animal in captivity. Apart from highlighting the unsavoury side of a few farmers I'm not sure whether it is them or the media that put out those anthropomorphic statements, like calves being 'torn' away from their mothers?
Agree the damage to the agricultural industry can be huge with this sort of publicity, instead of focusing on the minority of poor farmers, they damn all of them.
I didn't want to get into the cage hen battle-but what you say is true-they get cages banned and then the country imports eggs from places with no animal welfare rules. I think some European countries are great examples of this. No farmers allowed to keep battery hens, but eggs freely imported from countries that do.
To back up the Free Range v Cage farm debate, I believe more hens going to free range farms are beak trimmed than those going into cages!

I once attended a poultry conference where SAFE were boycotting cage hens and rampaging through the hotel as well as shouting and yelling outside on the road-it was actually quite scary. What did they hope to achieve apart from turning everyone against them!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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8 years 5 months ago #516078 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
I do apologise for thoughtlessly including mention of hens in cages. I didn't mean to get us tied up in that particular topic.

When I was an AB tech, I saw far too much of some of the sort of behaviour portrayed on the programme. Not quite to that extent, but bad enough when someone was watching to suspect that what went on when unobserved could easily have equalled or outdone it. I do not think cruelty to tiny calves is unusual. They don't move easily for people and untrained, impatient, poorly paid people working long hours are probably prone to doing things none of us would condone.
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8 years 5 months ago #516086 by lisaeve
Replied by lisaeve on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
What I find most surprising is the number of people that don't ever seem to have thought about the outcome for calves from the cows whose milk they are drinking. How did they think it worked???
the same as those that never think about what happens to the male chicks that are not needed for egg production.
Understanding of basic biology seems to go by the wayside when it comes to making informed consumer choices.
SAFE operate in many countries. Just because they are campaigning on this in NZ doesn't mean they aren't also campaigning on it elsewhere. Of course there are some countries, like China, where they have basically no presence at all.

17 Ha lifestyle property in Bay of Plenty... 7 Ha covenanted bush, remainder scrub, hills, and flat.

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8 years 5 months ago #516089 by Kilmoon
Replied by Kilmoon on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ

I do apologise for thoughtlessly including mention of hens in cages. I didn't mean to get us tied up in that particular topic.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :whistle: :whistle:
Not taking it personally Ruth :) , its just I wish I'd had a camera while working in both but this was back in the late 1980s so fingers crossed the practices of collecting everything, no matter where, or in what have changed. As an aside one place had removed a partition between cages, so hens had double the space of 'normal' (welfare first was the motto there) and even the other place had larger cages than what I've seen SAFE say is the norm (though his motto was dollar first and don't care how its made).

Back to calves though, you both make great points - its basically uneducated (as in how to treat them) staff that are the main culprits. Sue, as there are standards that need to be followed legal action against those not following them should occur. End of story. When it really gets down to it Joe and Jane Average Consumer are not going to change their coffee habits just because one organisation with an axe to grind says so....and if we're as easily swayed as that then we should all be voting for that commercial brand logo of red peak as our new flag because John Key says so :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

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8 years 5 months ago #516095 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
And nowhere in the programme did it discuss the 70% dairy x beef that is sold for human consumption via families like ourselves buying and raising bobby calves! The programme misled viewers into thinking every dairy calf is killed.

I do hope that NAIT crawls into the abattoir for accepting untagged animals though.

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8 years 5 months ago #516106 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
I'm actually trying to remember if I've ever seen a calf pen on the side of the road. Around here they MUST by truck deck height and are usually at the calf pens. This is more about one rogue Petfood slaughterhouse and their appauling standards rather than the dairy industry as a whole.

Quizzed my colleagues today and all were in agreement that we have better farm animal welfare now than we did 10 years ago


I love animals...they're delicious

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8 years 5 months ago #516107 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
Yes I was appalled and sickened that TVNZ would allow an animal rights group to use them to tarnish a whole industry based on one bad slaughterhouse in thecWaikato that are operating way way outside the industry standards.


I love animals...they're delicious

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8 years 5 months ago #516111 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic "Sunday" on TVNZ
The thing is City people are so disconnected from the origin of their food source, they really have no idea of what is fact or a bit of media fiction. Easy to convince them this is how animals are treated on (all) farms.

We on this forum can all (generally speaking of course) sit back and pick the holes out of the reporting because we have some knowledge either through direct efforts or simply because we live in rural districts and for the most part, know bloody good farmers and their practices. But the vote and population numbers are not in regional areas. And I was appalled from reading an earlier article that a farming body was interviewed but it was cut from the piece that appeared on TV.

Seems to me the channel is in breach of viewing standards.

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