Bread Issues

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8 years 10 months ago #39826 by Robinsons Folly?
Hi everyone,
I am having terrible issues with my bread not rising. I have changed all ingredients, twice in some cases, and even tried our backup breadmaker. Loaf barely rises, isn't browned and all doughy. Been about two months of this. No idea why. Is anyone else having issues with flour or yeast? Temperatures are cooler than summer of course, but previous years have not done this to my bread. At a loss to what is happening. Same recipe I have used for the past 7 or 8 years. Help? :(

Three Piggies, Four Chooky Babes, Randy the Roo, Hubby and Me. [:D]

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8 years 10 months ago #508926 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Bread Issues
sounds as if it isn't rising much at all which suggests ingredients first off, which of course you have tried. If you have an oven, try heating that a little then turning off, and if you have a thermometer, check the oven is not too hot and put your bread in a bowl in oven to rise. Rewarm if it cools too far. You can still use the breadmaker to do the preliminary beating. Check all the settings in case something has been moved in your settings. Is the breadmaker actually heating enough? If all else fails you could put the bread in a loaf pan and cook in the oven.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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8 years 10 months ago #508929 by kai
Replied by kai on topic Bread Issues
I gave away a bread maker because I thought it was not working, what the cause was using Edmonds yeast, the sort with "improvers" added. When I got a new bread maker it had two sets of recipes, one for NZ and one for Australia and sure enough you need about four times the amount of NZ yeast. Since then I use the sachets of yeast and following the Australian recipe and it rises every time (or at least it does if I don't forget to add water :confused:)

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8 years 10 months ago #508937 by Robinsons Folly?
Replied by Robinsons Folly? on topic Bread Issues
Hi Stikkibeek,

yes, I was going to try baking in the oven. It was going to be Plan D or... Y ... :) And also try some of my other recipes I have. It just seems a bit strange that both breadmakers might play up all of a sudden.... what are the chances?! :)

Three Piggies, Four Chooky Babes, Randy the Roo, Hubby and Me. [:D]

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8 years 10 months ago #508938 by Robinsons Folly?
Replied by Robinsons Folly? on topic Bread Issues
Hi Kai,

yes we obtained our breadmaker from someone who couldn't get it to work, I suspect due to not increasing the yeast as the breadmaker yeast contains the improvers and you have to add more yeast... :) We use Aussie measuring sets as the Breville is and Australian brand and their tablespoons are bigger. So it was easier just to get an Aussie set of spoons :) We have had the occasional one go wrong in the past, who doesn't? but not to this consistent prolonged amount.... sigh..... more trial and error.... :)

Three Piggies, Four Chooky Babes, Randy the Roo, Hubby and Me. [:D]

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8 years 10 months ago #508939 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Bread Issues
Are you able to make a paste with the flour when it is heated gently with water? If not much then there is too much alpha amylase activity in the flour.
But more probably there is gluten damage in the flour caused by a protease from a bug that usually does not cause any damage.
Ask the company that made the flour if they will test for each of these.
In a previous life I was a Flour Mill Scientist.

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8 years 10 months ago #508941 by Robinsons Folly?
Replied by Robinsons Folly? on topic Bread Issues
Would adding more gluten help do you think LongRidge? I use gluten flour in the recipe for wholemeal bread, so I have it on hand....

Three Piggies, Four Chooky Babes, Randy the Roo, Hubby and Me. [:D]

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8 years 10 months ago #508945 by Alan Gilbert
Replied by Alan Gilbert on topic Bread Issues
I threw out my second troublesome Breville breadmaker and swore a mighty oath that I'd never buy anything made by them again. I replaced it with a Panasonic, which has never failed me yet.
One thing I have found does make a difference to the final size of the loaf in winter is gently warming the 400ml of water before putting it in the basket (it's the first thing to go in). About 20 seconds in the electric jug is usually enough to take the chill off.
I agree that Edmonds yeast can be very variable, but I'm not sure that the others are any better. I've also found it best to buy the flours (white and wholemeal) in small quantities to ensure freshness, as someone once told me that stale flour can affect the rising. (Longridge, would you have an opinion on that?)

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8 years 10 months ago #508949 by Farmersden
Replied by Farmersden on topic Bread Issues
We took our first breadmaker back to shop, same "no rise" problem with the second, turned out we bought the wrong type of yeast - I cant remember which is which but with edmonds one was orange top and one red top, one is for loaves and one for flat bread and brewing !!! Anyway changed the yeast and bingo not a problem since !

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8 years 10 months ago #508950 by Robinsons Folly?
Replied by Robinsons Folly? on topic Bread Issues
Our Breville Bakers Oven is our "go-to" brand. We have had the same one for years only needing to replace paddles when they lose their non stick. The best one we have had. Wouldn't use any other. Makes brilliant loaves and dough normally. We are experienced users, so this is a bit odd.... still feel it might be the flour.... :)

Three Piggies, Four Chooky Babes, Randy the Roo, Hubby and Me. [:D]

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8 years 10 months ago #508992 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Bread Issues
When I was testing bread makers and flours as a science project with each son, I found that it was distinctly more difficult to get a good loaf with "strong" or "bakers" flour than with standard flour. This was about 15 years ago, so flour mills might remotely have also learned this, but I suspect not. When I was assessing new wheat cultivars for their acceptability for bread flour, we were told over and over that the high powered commercial machines required more and stronger protein. This of course is a bit of a nonsense because all that happens is more power is needed to knead, and more wear and tear occurs. It is also more difficult to get enough yeast growing rapidly enough to aerate the loaf, which might be what has happened to you.
So I suspect that more gluten may not help.
Have you tried using a softer flour?
Remember that it takes an extremely good mill to make a consistent quality flour with variable wheat cultivars, seasonal effects on wheat quality, different operators of the same mill, and temperature and moisture effects on the mill equipment.
Have you tried a bit more sugar in the mix? The sugar is to provide yeast food

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8 years 10 months ago #509011 by Belle Bosse
Replied by Belle Bosse on topic Bread Issues
Try using the boxed sachets of Edmonds sure to rise instant Dry Yeast instead of the "bread improver" yeast mixes. One sachet is enough for a 1kg loaf.
Also try a longer program such as rye which warms before mixing and takes 4 hours to complete.

I dont think it really matters what size measuring spoon/cup you use to measure bread ingredients with, provided you keep to the same measuring set (AU/NZ) all the way through.
I also don't think extra gluten will help with rising.

Following the bread-maker's recipes from its manual was one hard brick disaster after another! I changed recipe book and had no further problems... apart from when the generator broke down part way through baking!!!
The test loaf of the new recipe was hand made and oven baked. It worked so I've used the recipe in the bread maker ever since, and changed the ingredients but not the quantities.

I only use the boxed Edmonds sachets of instant dry yeast for my bread making as I dont want extra chemicals in the bread. I have a Sunbeam bread-maker which I'd happily reprogram if it were possible!!

The Edmonds recipe book's Wholemeal bread recipe (Pg 25, 59th edition), is my "base recipe" for bread and is so versatile / forgiving with ingredient changes... Not that the recipe needs correcting;
I like experimenting... parsnip bread, beetroot bread, spinach and "ricotta" pull-apart bread, fruit bread... and usually end up with a loaf of bread that is acceptable for making sandwiches.

Husband likes his bread made from Rye, a fragile gluten grain, which makes it difficult to hold the air to make it rise. Rye bread is usually pretty dense and a bit heavy.
I've experimented up to 100% rye before settling with 2 cups rye, two wheat, 1 cup rolled / steel cut oats and one cup kibbled rye.
It is too stiff and sticky for the machine to handle so I make by hand, shape, then put in the bread maker WITHOUT the paddle and start the Rye program. It has a long slow rise and bakes a nice loaf at the end.

The flours I use are organic stone ground wheat, organic rye, organic rolled oats or steel cut oats or kibbled rye. At times I've thrown in organic Spelt flour, Barley flour or millet flour. (Millet has no gluten).
I've added Chia seed, or sunflower or pumpkin seed, or sesame seed. In place of honey I've used same amount of black strap molasses, dark muscovado sugar or molasses sugar.

The recipe asks for hot water. I boil the water, put the required amount in the pan with coconut milk and molasses, then add the kibbled rye, Chia seed and oats to soak as it cools down before adding the yeast.
I forgot to pack the coconut milk one time and baked a lovely rye loaf using 3/4 cup of stewed apple as milk replacement!
The recipe asks for butter; I've used coconut oil or olive oil, but have settled for a little extra coconut milk instead.

I had been using Spelt flour (fragile, low gluten) for myself, but have had to go back to gluten free flours. Spelt is beautiful to work with and bakes a lovely high rise loaf on the 1 hour basic program. It can be easily over worked which breaks down the fragile gluten, so faster program is best.

Hope this helps

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8 years 10 months ago #509037 by bb
Replied by bb on topic Bread Issues
I bake bread almost every day, though I only use the breadmaker to do the knead/rise/punch stuff and then I shape and bake in the oven. Having gone to a Panasonic finally a couple of years ago, I have to say I have never had a fail yet. Mostly I think because it gets everything to the right temperature first, which I think is very important. But you can do that yourself, by paying attention to the temperature of your ingredients as you no doubt know.
If what you've always done no longer works, then I really would think it was the yeast or flour. I have had yeast go bad, from being left out of the fridge, or 'contaminated' with moisture, etc. Have you actually tried to use a fresh bag of flour? a new jar of yeast? Do you bake in the breadmaker or oven?

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8 years 10 months ago #509043 by stephclark
Replied by stephclark on topic Bread Issues
we have a pansonic bread maker.. hubby makes a loaf a day and never had a fail..i,on the other hand, manage to produce soggy flat things that even the chooks wont touch...

same ingrediants.. only difference we can see is that hubby being a scientist, measures everything to the inth degree, I am more a bucket chemist..

OH follows the recipes exactly ( supplied with maker )

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8 years 10 months ago #509047 by footinmouth
Replied by footinmouth on topic Bread Issues
Breadmakers are fickle creatures. I laugh at people with child like amazement go on how a breadmaker is so fast and can produce a loaf in "4 whole hours!!". My breadmaker is my hands and if I am really busy or cant be bothered the kenwood chef mixer. I can produce 1kg loaves in a couple of hours with about 6 minutes actual work in total - 5 of that the mixer doing its thing. Kenwood mixers make great bread and you dont need to be precise.

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