Raw milk - vets stance

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9 years 1 month ago #505725 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raw milk - vets stance

igor;512132 wrote: Would you care to expand on that for the benefit of those of us who have never farmed in Australia?

Presumably a reference to the withholding of child-support payments to those who will not vaccinate their children.

I've been listening to a number of radio pieces lately on the gut microbiome and one bit of information my mind held onto was that those with a very varied diet have a much better variety in their gut flora, leading to better health outcomes than for those whose intake is highly processed and based on only a few food types.

Raw milk presumably contains a greater variety of bugs, good and bad, than homogenised, pasteurised milk. While there may be little science to prove its worth at present, it doesn't eliminate the possibility that it is indeed rather good for us to drink it raw.

However I'd still not drink your raw milk, only that over which I have direct control. If I get sick, I want it to be my own fault, not due to something I can't even begin to pin down because I don't know your processes or the history of your raw materials.

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9 years 1 month ago #505726 by Organix
Replied by Organix on topic Raw milk - vets stance

cowvet;512131 wrote: .... the increased incidence of food borne Disease that occurs with the consumption of raw versus pasteurised milk.......

This could be argued as being an indication of the failing health of the population's gut biological health (and pH) compounded by the increasing incidence of seriously pathogenic bacterial agents (such as E coli O157:H7 ) as a result of adopting intensive farming practices.

Just as pasteurised milk is a bacterial vacuum so is a digestive system that has been ravaged by highly processed food, environmental pollutants, antibiotics and stress. The opportunity for illness is pretty much a given under such conditions and to lay the blame on raw milk from a conscientious and responsible supplier is a bit of a cop out by our public health system.

So to solve the problem of compromised guts being challenged by amplified infectious agents, perhaps addressing the overall health of the population would be preferable to restricting the diet of all. Our law makers are all too ready to cater for the lowest common denominator and this would seem to be just another example of this :rolleyes:

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9 years 1 month ago #505735 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Certainly there could be some benefit from challenging our immune system with bacterial and virus contaminated milk. But how do you know that everybody that has an immune system that cannot handle that challenge knows not to drink raw milk. Elderly, young, ill, pregnant, and not previously challenged will all be at risk.
Does anyone know what ACC's submission is to people who put their health to more risk than it is already?

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9 years 1 month ago #505739 by kai
Replied by kai on topic Raw milk - vets stance

LongRidge;512145 wrote:
Does anyone know what ACC's submission is to people who put their health to more risk than it is already?

If they did that they would have to exclude all rugby players as they count for more claims than any other.

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9 years 1 month ago #505749 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Raw milk - vets stance
From reading the posts re consumption of raw milk I have never considered giving my guests any option other than to have our raw milk in their tea or breakfast, I just assume because we consume our own milk, no one else is going to have a problem with it either.... a new modern day dilemma?

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9 years 1 month ago #505750 by kindajojo
Replied by kindajojo on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Is there any hard data to support an increase in negative outcomes from drinking raw milk..ie have we seen an increase in TB, lepto etc admissions to hospital that can be directly linked to raw milk consumption...
....there is lots of "theories" out there about what to eat, what not to eat, what to drink..we seem obsessed today with being healthy but everyone ha a different theory how to get there.

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9 years 1 month ago #505752 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raw milk - vets stance

max2;512159 wrote: From reading the posts re consumption of raw milk I have never considered giving my guests any option other than to have our raw milk in their tea or breakfast, I just assume because we consume our own milk, no one else is going to have a problem with it either.... a new modern day dilemma?

I always tell my guests the milk/cream/icecream is unpasteurised, in case they have some health issue or status of which I am unaware, which could put them at risk. Imagine inadvertently killing someone's baby because you had no idea there was Listeria lurking in your kitchen. What if one of your visitors has a long-term immuno-deficiency problem which allowed them to become extremely ill after ingesting bacteria our systems are capable of dealing with?

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9 years 1 month ago #505754 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Raw milk - vets stance
While the following is a UK article, a similar study was carried out in NZ a few years ago with similar results. A staggering 60% of all raw chicken tested was found to carry campylobacter. Guarantee that more people per capita that eat super market chicken will become infected with campylobactor than per capita who drink raw milk.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-29703...d-poisoning-bug.html

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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9 years 1 month ago #505758 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

kindajojo;512161 wrote: Is there any hard data to support an increase in negative outcomes from drinking raw milk..ie have we seen an increase in TB, lepto etc admissions to hospital that can be directly linked to raw milk consumption...
....there is lots of "theories" out there about what to eat, what not to eat, what to drink..we seem obsessed today with being healthy but everyone ha a different theory how to get there.

Yes there are. That is the published data that is used in the risk calculations.

The other big set of data used was in the John Hopkins study in the U.S. Which concluded the 100x risk factor - it used reported/confirmed medical cases


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505759 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Stikkibeek;512165 wrote: While the following is a UK article, a similar study was carried out in NZ a few years ago with similar results. A staggering 60% of all raw chicken tested was found to carry campylobacter. Guarantee that more people per capita that eat super market chicken will become infected with campylobactor than per capita who drink raw milk.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-29703...d-poisoning-bug.html

I don't eat raw chicken. I manage that risk by heeding the warnings and handling and cooking it correctly. If chicken was something we consumed raw then we would not be able To buy it with such heavy contamination .


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505760 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Raw milk - vets stance
There are also studies indicating reduced asthma and allergies in children who drink raw milk

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9 years 1 month ago #505763 by morioka
Replied by morioka on topic Raw milk - vets stance

muri;512171 wrote: There are also studies indicating reduced asthma and allergies in children who drink raw milk

But can you say it's the raw milk or rather that parents who let kids drink raw milk also let them play in the dirt, play with animals and don't use antibacterial products in the house.....? Correlation doesn't imply a cause.

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9 years 1 month ago #505765 by igor
Replied by igor on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Interestingly in my family my brother and I and all our rural cousins had no trouble with childhood asthma while all our city dwelling cousins did. We rural dwellers used to give the city folks cheek about smog being the cause but looking back maybe it wasn't. I am convinced that being too clean in the house can lead to health problems later but it probably wasn't that either as they allowed their big dog full access to indoor areas.

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9 years 1 month ago #505766 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Raw milk - vets stance

cowvet;512170 wrote: I don't eat raw chicken. I manage that risk by heeding the warnings and handling and cooking it correctly. If chicken was something we consumed raw then we would not be able To buy it with such heavy contamination .

That's not the point I was making

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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9 years 1 month ago #505770 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Raw milk - vets stance
kai, if I were ACC I would strongly state that rugby, mountaineering and other dangerous sports (like smoking cigarettes, taking narcotics) were known considerations when ACC was set up, so have been factored in to the fees. Drinking raw milk is a new sport, and is proven to be 100 times more dangerous than drinking pasteurised milk, both in NZ and in USA. This factor has not been included in the ACC fees determination, because up to now it has been an illegal and not part of anyones lifestyle (unlike drug taking which is illegal but has always been part of some lifestyles).

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