Raw milk - vets stance

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9 years 1 month ago #505640 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Inger;512030 wrote: All I know is, that I grew up on raw, refrigerated milk from Tb and Lepto tested cows and our family didn't suffer from it.

The urine which splashed around during milking and assisting calving cows without using long vet gloves, caused my Dad more illnesses than drinking raw cows milk.

If the milk wasn't collected cleanly and had a high bacteria count, it was marked down by the dairy company and you got a drop in pay-out. So it was in every farmer's best interests to make sure that the milk was collected hygienically from the cows and stored safely, ready for the milk tanker. Producing a good product was a matter of pride.


sorry to be pedantic but a bit of educational advice here to illustrate what the public thinks and what I know...

lepto is vaccinated for but it is not a guarantee that the animals do not shed lepto. we do not routinely test for lepto shedding in cows in NZ...if a calf contracts lepto prior to vaccination then lepto can be circulating in a vaccinated herd. The amount of lepto shedding in vaccinated herds in NZ would make you think twice on that one!

it is somatic cell count that farmers are graded on - this is white blood cell count in the milk and NOT bacteria. Contaminating bacteria that cause food borne diseases are not tested for by the milk companies. The thermoduric count is more about bacteria that may survive pasteurization and are about milk spoilage and storage life than food safety

there is no doubt that standards of milk hygiene are high in NZ - some of the highest in the world. But this does not make it safe and hence the stance of the vet profession. Would I put my hand on my heart and my livelihood on selling it to the general public to drink raw - in so much that I could be sued should someone get sick and die when I had signed off that the cows were healthy. Nope!


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505641 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic Raw milk - vets stance

cowvet;512021 wrote: Purple To show My reply within your text.
CAPITALS WOULD BE SHOUTING.

I KNOW CAPITALS IS SHOUTING but I thought perhaps the purple ink was something similar - my mistake, sorry :o

The largest employer of veterinarians in NZ is the food safety authority/MPI so uncoupling would fragment our profession . On a daily basis much of my job in clinical farm practice is linked to food safety given that I am servicing the meat and milk trade


So if there is a willing buyer and a willing seller, but the government wants the product certified before purchase, but the vets don't want to do the certification even though food safety is apparently part of their job, and without the certification the seller can't legally sell it and the buyer can't buy a product they want, even though we have already established that more lethal products are readily available with suitable warnings, then whats a law abiding consumer supposed to do?

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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9 years 1 month ago #505642 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

llvonn;512040 wrote:
The MPI and their consultation documents are not really engaging in true consultation. Their options they provided were loaded towards what they wanted to install and not what the public want.

.


Glad you noticed that none of the three options were for a complete ban on raw milk sales for human consumption.

Individual purchase is still supported in all three proposals. My point being that the vets...(you know the ones that visit the farms and see the animals and regularly deal with on farm milk quality) are not prepared to certify it as safe. If you buy it is at your risk. I am not prepared to accept that risk and insure myself on your behalf should you choose to sue me when things go pear shaped.


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505644 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Anakei;512044 wrote:

So if there is a willing buyer and a willing seller, but the government wants the product certified before purchase, but the vets don't want to do the certification even though food safety is apparently part of their job, and without the certification the seller can't legally sell it and the buyer can't buy a product they want, even though we have already established that more lethal products are readily available with suitable warnings, then whats a law abiding consumer supposed to do?


it means that I am not misleading supposed willing buyer into thinking it is safe by putting my professional opinion/stamp of approval on it. They can still buy it but I am not putting my name on it insinuating that if the cows look healthy then the milk is safe.
As I see it the farmers may well be able to sell it - but their vet won't be involved and nothing they can do makes it safer for you.

Suitable warnings - the fact that vets don't support the idea that healthy cows produce safe raw milk 100% of the time - is the very same reason why GPs don't say that healthy tobacco crops mean healthy smokers and healthy grape crops insinuate alcohol does not come with risk.

The day the doctors say that a tobacco crop looks healthy and is therefore harmless is the day that I will personally relook at the idea that a healthy looking cow might produce milk that I can guarantee is safe


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505645 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Inger;512030 wrote: All I know is, that I grew up on raw, refrigerated milk from Tb and Lepto tested cows and our family didn't suffer from it.

.

I know that my dairy farming grandfather drank raw milk and died from TB.


I love animals...they're delicious

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9 years 1 month ago #505647 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raw milk - vets stance
All of my grandparents drank milk and all of them are dead.

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9 years 1 month ago #505649 by Ronney
Replied by Ronney on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Ruth;512051 wrote: All of my grandparents drank milk and all of them are dead.

Ditto

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9 years 1 month ago #505651 by kai
Replied by kai on topic Raw milk - vets stance

Ruth;512051 wrote: All of my grandparents drank milk and all of them are dead.

Yup, same as mine.

TB in humans is usually transmitted air borne.

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9 years 1 month ago #505652 by Organix
Replied by Organix on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Of course you realise that bacteria don't necessarily denote a negative health impact. The 90%+ of your and my body mass that is comprised of bacteria is absolutely necessary for our survival. Our gut in particular is a veritable hotbed of bacteria whose myriad activities and purposes are still largely a mystery to science and absolutely vital to our digestion and many other functions.

Milk is likewise a live bacterial culture in many regards with most of those bacteria contributing beneficial health effects, while also combatting pathogenic bacteria and other organisms present in this energy rich environment. Pastuerising kills all bacteria in milk thus leaving a dead medium which is then essentially a bacterial vacuum ripe for reinfestation.

So, consume live milk which has the ability to impart beneficial additions to your gut biome with a minor (calculated) risk of pathogenic contamination, or drink a sterile mix of fats, sugars, proteins and water from anonymously farmed and fed cows - hmmm? :rolleyes:

Harm Less Solutions.co.nz
NZ & AU distributor of Eco Wood Treatment stains and Bambu Dru bamboo fabrics and clothing

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9 years 1 month ago #505653 by kai
Replied by kai on topic Raw milk - vets stance
If unpasteurised cow milk was so dangerous, I think there would be a few more dead calves.

I have looked into the old pasteurised/unpasteurised debate in detail. I think I am at greater risk of eating supermarket bagged lettuce!

And whilst I have no problem with vets covering their arses and saying I will not give out a certificate to say the herd is perfectly safe for drinking un-pasteurised milk from it, because they are not qualified to do so, I do find it hypocritical to be then giving dietary advice about un-pasteurised milk.

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9 years 1 month ago #505654 by llvonn
Replied by llvonn on topic Raw milk - vets stance

cowvet;512045 wrote: Glad you noticed that none of the three options were for a complete ban on raw milk sales for human consumption.

Individual purchase is still supported in all three proposals.

Yes individual purchase was allowed, however the first two options required an RMP which would, to all intents and purposes, shut down farm gate sales of raw milk. You can see this listed in the disadvantages section on pages 12 and 13 of the original consultation document.

That left option three which would severely limit the amount farmers would be allowed to sell, making it non-viable economically and make it difficult for consumers to access as demand would outnumber supply.

That is why only 52 of the 1663 submissions identified one of the options provided and the majority rejected them outright and gave their own opinion of what should be done.

Believe me cowvet, I have done my research, including poring through stats on food-borne illnesses for my submissions to the MPI. You and I have opposing views. The difference is that I am fine with your decision not to drink raw milk and I respect that you have your reasons for your belief. I just wish you would respect that my views in favour of raw milk are not made blindly, emotively or based on one source of reasoning.

1 Border Terrier, 5 hens, 5 chicks, an orchard and vege garden. All on 350 square metres.

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9 years 1 month ago #505656 by MurrayR
Replied by MurrayR on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Quote Ernie the Fastest Milk Man in the West

"And he didn't half kick his horse"

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9 years 1 month ago #505657 by kindajojo
Replied by kindajojo on topic Raw milk - vets stance
Agree with cow vet, looking at an animal which appears healthy does not guarantee the milk is safe for human consumption. That's obvious

...and I wouldn't expect a vet to comment on the suitability of what I eatdrink....

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9 years 1 month ago #505659 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Raw milk - vets stance

kindajojo;512061 wrote: Agree with cow vet, looking at an animal which appears healthy does not guarantee the milk is safe for human consumption. That's obvious

...and I wouldn't expect a vet to comment on the suitability of what I eatdrink....

Thats the whole point, the raw milk issue has nothing to do with vets opinions and using a professional background in animals to judge the fitness of milk for drinking is absolutely ridiculous

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9 years 1 month ago #505660 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Raw milk - vets stance
And I have followed the Australian situation am still am where it is now illegal to sell raw milk for consumption because of a child who had drunk raw milk and died.
The papers and whoever else took it on board as a cause without the facts fully in their sights.
The young boy had cancer and had had chemo. He had not had ANY RAW MILK IN THE TWO MONTHS BEFORE HE DIED, yet everyone could make a connection between his death and the raw milk.
Too many interfering and politically motivated people in this issue.

And .....both my grandparents and my parents are dead and none of them ever drank raw milk, scary isnt it

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