Diatomaceous Earth

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9 years 7 months ago #38301 by hillside
Diatomaceous Earth was created by hillside
Me again, thought it would be best to have separate thread.

I have been giving the chooks DE for the last year or so to keep worms down. I used to just sprinkle it over the pellets, but I started noticing that chickens got sick and some even died, only ever when I did that treatment, so I thought, I would soak the pellets and mix the DE in with the mash and that might work better.

Is there actually any proof that this works with the chickens? Mine have got slightly foamy poos, just some, but I wonder if that is worms?

Again, would appreciate your feedback.

Thank you

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9 years 7 months ago #494063 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Diatomaceous Earth
Hillside there were studies done on DE and the effect on worms in sheep and I dont think it made a lot of difference,
There are different grades which would have different effects so hopefully you looked into that.
The real stuff is an irritant that you shouldnt breath in or digest so I wouldnt be feeding it to my animals personally

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9 years 7 months ago #494085 by Anne
Replied by Anne on topic Diatomaceous Earth
At one stage I did lots of research into DE - for use as a wormer and as an external parasite treatment. I found lots of information from DE producers about how wonderful it was, but when I asked them for links to research supporting their claims, they couldn't produce anything. The only research that I could find, indicated the DE was ineffective at best in any parasite control, and may be harmful if owners then used no other parasite control. There was also concern about the damage it could do to gut linings etc due to its high irritant effect.

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9 years 7 months ago #494089 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Diatomaceous Earth
Hillside, if you suspect your birds have worms then much better to give them a worming with a recognised product, and then just maintain a healthy gut. You can use things like chopped pumpkin seeds as a beneficial product for low levels of worms, but it is not going to cure a worm infestation.

Yes foamy droppings can sometimes be a sign of worms, so much better to use a recognised worming product in the first place and then follow up with the alternatives, like pumpkin seeds.

There are wormers such as Aviverm, Flubenol and also the cattle pour on Ivermectin or Eprinex-which when used correctly by dropping the correct amount (0.1ml per kg bodyweight) on the bare skin under the wing-will control both internal and external parasites (fleas, lice and mites) for a period of 6 weeks.
All these products need to be administered correctly and note any egg with-holding times.

DE has its place in a dust bath for the birds to self administer for external parasite control, but feeding unlimited amounts by forcing it on the by mixing in their feed is a bad practice, as you may have already found out!

Thank you Anne for your comments and research already done on DE (or not as the case may be!).

The same comment goes for cider vinegar! Some claim it as a wormer but I know of one trial used on free range commercial flocks where there was absolutely no difference in worm egg counts between untreated flocks and those using cider vinegar, as compared with those using a chemical wormer flubenol.
Cider vinegar may have its place in maintaining overall gut health, when used in a routine programme. It is this overall health that helps the birds resist worm burdens, and their natural immunity-not the cider vinegar being used as a medicine to get rid of worms.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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9 years 7 months ago #494091 by muri
Replied by muri on topic Diatomaceous Earth
I think one of the problems in this technological age is that we can all read all these different ideas which are often unsubstantiated by evidence. Someone says that DE works without doing control studies.
The conventional wisdom then becomes its good for worms when in fact we dont know this to be true or not, but accept its possibility as sellers of the product say it is.
Selling alternatives is as big a business as selling mainstream products, but in the end the cost of using something that is unproven can be higher than using the mainstream products in the first instance

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9 years 7 months ago #494095 by wttmf
Replied by wttmf on topic Diatomaceous Earth
I have used DE for about 5 yrs, on my dogs coat around carpets and in corners of house etc to control fleas.

I have taken it myself orally and feed it to the dogs regularly.
I have given to chickens, sheep and cows at the same time as apple cider, and garlic when we are clearing internal parasites.

To control internal parasites with DE alone it needs to be given every day for around 3 months to be effective.

There is little research around for DE and many other products as it costs too much and unless there is a real profit to made from the product no one is intersected in funding it. So just because a product doesn't have reserch to back it doesnt nessisarrly mean it does not work.

My personal experience with using DE over 5 yrs has been good.
I work in natural health (Dr of TCM) so was able to monitor the effects of myself from taking DE, I found I had a little weight gain and energy increase over time, and the most outstanding result was improvement in my skin, general complexion and youthfulness of the skin. However it needs to be taken regular to get any noticeable result.

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9 years 7 months ago #494106 by hillside
Replied by hillside on topic Diatomaceous Earth
Thank you every one for your thoughts and suggestions, I really do appreciate it.
Last time I asked at the vets and CRT , all they had was Aviverm, but I seem to remember that you can't sell the eggs after administering that. And aren't you suppose to do it by body weight? We have 51 chooks, it would be a huge mission to do it that way.
I am interested to learn more about that Eprinex, especially if I don't have to keep the eggs back from it. Where would I get that from?

Again, I really appreciate your input into my problem!

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9 years 7 months ago #494118 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Diatomaceous Earth
There is a witholding time of 14 days with Eprinex as it is not an 'approved' poultry remedy in this country. However some vets will prescribe it for you. You still need to estimate their bodyweight though!
If you are doing a biggish flock with Aviverm just estimate weights and multiply by the numbers of each size. eg bantams probably around 1kg, shaver type hens around 2kgs, Orpington type heavy hens about 3.5kgs. Then when you have total weight divide by 9. The treatment is 1ml to 9kgs of weight-if I remember correctly. You then add the appropriate number of mls to the days water supply. The key is that hens will drink double what they eat. So if they eat 100gms of food per day, they will drink about 200ml of water. Make sure they can't get water from any other source but the treated water.

See if you can get hold of Flubenol from a vet, there is no withdrawal period for eggs, it is usually mixed in the feed for a 7 day treatment. www.nutritech.co.nz/vdb/document/243

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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