Raspy Breathing - Cattle

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11 years 4 months ago #445772 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Quite right Ruth. I won't state to which comment though.
I'm glad that this discussion has turned to the subject of forgotten or new science. Ken Ring has a theory, and like Galileo and Copernicus was not afraid to communicate it. Like Galileo he has been silenced. But if you read Genesis chapter 41, there was this guy called Joseph that could tell the weather in advance. Unfortunately for Ring, he did not claim that his help was from God. Disgarding unproven theories is very unscientific, and leads to ignorance.
Mr Daer has tried to dispel some of his ignorance by asking a very good question. How can he know that there might be 100 different answers to his question if he thinks that there might be one or two simple answers to try first. If Mr Daer is prepared to offer some suggestions to the vet, then the vet can explain to him why those suggestions to not fit the symptoms, thus helping the vet to remember more of the possibilities. I have had some grossly irresponsible veterinary advice from our vets. One missed calculi in a kid, another missed 2 broken hips in a cow (immediately seen by the butcher when he arrived), one missed secondary infection in a smoked donkey ( antibiotics immediately advised by another vet), the vet practice, all 8 of them, missed iodine deficiency (immediately diagnosed over the phone by my tame vet).
Thus Mr Daer, thank you for your interesting question. Please try to take the good parts of the advice and disregard the stinging bits from some of the waspish posters.

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11 years 4 months ago #445774 by 3scoremiles10
Daerfamily, do ignore Ruth and Cowvet, they seem to have woken up on the wrong side of bed this morning and decided to start a mutual appreciation society on your thread for some reason.

As someone who has lost a dog due to gross negligence on the part of the vet, and had a another dog suffer needless months of pain also due to veterinary bungling, I am a great believer in doing my own research as well as calling the vet in. Vets, and doctors for that matter, are not all-knowing and all-wise, and should not be treated as such.

I think, Daerfamily, that you asked a very useful question - the same one, in fact, that I asked when I got Jarrah, my rescue mare. I asked this forum for their advice and experience, as well as getting the vet in, and then the equine dentist and the farrier. All contributed and care was coordinated at every stage with my vet.

Random guesses as to what could be wrong with the animal are obviously not useful, but I think there is definitely a place for the voice of experience and "I had a very similar situation and ...".

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11 years 4 months ago #445776 by HarryPotter

cowvet;445797 wrote: You and I are probably two of the few people that will tell posters what they need to be told...rather than what they want to hear....and probably two of the most experienced cattle people on here for that matter!

So what you are "telling" the TA and the rest of us posters therefore is that we should not ask for suggestions or opinions in future when a specific diagnosis can not be contributed. That would wipe out a lot of the threads on this forum.

Cowvet you surprise me! Your posts here are completely unhelpful and are hardly conducive to encouraging people to seek advice, suggestions and opinions that are within the context of this website and this forum specifically.

While you make your point very clearly your initial post is antagonistic and discouraging especially in light of the fact that the TA had quite clearly stated she had already arranged a vet visit today. They were simply asking for opinions in the interim which is totally within the context of this forum as I have already stated.

You may get a bit annoyed by the "Opinions 101" nature of some threads but I would much rather read "Opinions 101" rather than " How to Kill a Thread a Dead in its Tracks 101"

If I were the TA I would be quite disheartened by your posts and feel less inclined to ask for assistance in future.

Daerfamily, please let us know what the vets diagnosis was. I am sure this would be helpful to others who are in a similar situation at a later date.

Sharing the pad with Harry the Australian Terrorist, Penny the Bearded Collie, Bev the Schnauzer/beardie and her daughters Nellie and Charlotte. (Dad was a Hungarian Vizsla) + lots of chooks. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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11 years 4 months ago #445777 by daerfamily
Replied by daerfamily on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Hi All. thanks for your posts and comments. I did feel somewhat underestimated in certain postings, but as I know I am a confident person, it doesn't bother me, like I said earlier, you are under no obligation to comment.

I like reading the forums here, and I like what most people have to say and i am basically trying to be as informed as I can be about an animal that I have cared for nearly all its life. I am not a vet, but I do understand anatomy etc, and I would like to be a person the vet can talk to and feel like I know what they're talking about after an explanation.

I will let everyone know what she says. For now, he is penned up in the shed and not very happy but there he will stay. The vet is coming at half four to check him out. We have his mate in there also to keep him company (and it was very difficult to part them from each other as they have been together forever). He is chewing cud and still munching/drinking away, so hopefully we have caught whatever it turns out to be in the early stages and he's back to full health. He is my favourite and very friendly fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

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11 years 4 months ago #445791 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Well, this has turned into an interesting thread one way and another!

Having been on the end of , "my chook looks sick, what is wrong with it?" many times, and I'm not a vet, I can well see both sides of the argument, i.e. those that ask and the need for some helpful suggestions!

I go through a series of possibilities when the age, symptoms, history and situation of the bird in question is later divulged, ruling out some causes and listing the remaining possibilities. Because often the owner is not able to call a vet, or afford the myriad of tests required for a definite diagnosis and treatment for a single sick hen, then suggested causes and possible remedies from various quarters are often the result-which is where this forum is valuable.

In the case of larger and more valuable creatures-where it is not as easy to say, cull it and put it out of its misery, then the help of a vet is paramount in many cases. However even when you do call the vet, it is not always plain to see, sometimes without further tests or samples.

I think one thing that this thread does highlight is that adequate facilities should always be available when you keep large animals of any species, so that both the animal is contained and the human attendants, esecially the vet, are able to investigate and treat the animal safely!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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11 years 4 months ago #445824 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle

LongRidge;445801 wrote: Quite right Ruth. I won't state to which comment though....
Mr Daer ...

Funny, I always thought it was Ms Daer.
LR, you know what I think; you're welcome to your opinion too. :)

3scoremiles10;445803 wrote: Daerfamily, do ignore Ruth and Cowvet, they seem to have woken up on the wrong side of bed this morning and decided to start a mutual appreciation society on your thread for some reason. ...

Random guesses as to what could be wrong with the animal are obviously not useful, but I think there is definitely a place for the voice of experience and "I had a very similar situation and ...".

Thanks, 3sm10. That's lovely of you to appreciate our input in such a way. After all, we are only sharing our particular version of the "voice of experience". That we're both intelligent women who don't want to overstep the bounds of advice vs. opinion, is not something we ought to be criticised for (in my opinion). I think you'll find we both share much of our experience, freely, most of the time, and have been doing so for a long time.

HarryPotter;445805 wrote: ...Cowvet you surprise me! Your posts here are completely unhelpful and are hardly conducive to encouraging people to seek advice, suggestions and opinions that are within the context of this website and this forum specifically......

It would be foolish for a professional to offer an opinion on an unseen animal. I, for one, and I know I am not alone, appreciate the presence of a vet on this forum, offering opinion and experience from time to time. Diagnosis is a completely different thing. Guessing at the probable causes of a problem would not be responsible either. If you want guesses, a simple internet search will yield them for you.

daerfamily;445806 wrote: ... but I do understand anatomy etc, and I would like to be a person the vet can talk to and feel like I know what they're talking about after an explanation....

Same here. I like to discuss possibilities and observations on this forum. But I'm also careful to distinguish between those discussions and opinions on what might be a problem or not, because none of us, even a vet, could do that without seeing an animal. Lots of us will tell you what we've experienced with animals and will continue to do so, as long a everyone accepts the caveat that we cannot know for sure what's wrong with your animal.

I've had raspy breathing animals, a steer with pneumonia, a lot of calves at the moment which cough while and after they tear around the paddock. They're probably suffering from three (or four?) different problems.

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11 years 4 months ago #445827 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Just a bit of a follow up on our experience that I mentioned, our raspy breathing one is breathing easier, eating better and now has the cough of cattle that is in need of a drench, rather than the deep breathing/rattler we had a couple of weeks ago.

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11 years 4 months ago #445828 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle

daerfamily;445698 wrote: , and he gets the timber cheap as he has an account at ITM!


From our experience our local ITM is the most expensive for timber, Carters will haggle and we get most of our fencing timbers from there, but Hubby also in the building trade, buys his roofing battens from Bunnings.

It pays to continually shop around in these uncertain economic times. :)

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11 years 4 months ago #445835 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Thanks Ruth - your reply was exactly what i was thinking. As a vet in the area it could very well have been me going to see this animal this afternoon! To be quite honest i learnt a long time ago to filter out the 'white noise'' of everyone elses opinions, what the neighbours think and what has been found on the internet. They can often cause you to make assumptions and miss something. Using your eyes, ears, nose, hands and brain will ALWAYS be better than doing an internet search or a random request for opinions from people who have not seen the animal.

After 15 years I know now NOT to form an opinion before i see the animal as more often than not the reality is different to the assumptions.

I have not meant to offend anyone not have i been antagonistic. I have been truthful and honest and offered what I consider to be a very relevant opnion...that of not expressing one, and leaving it to someone who actually going to see this animal.


I love animals...they're delicious

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11 years 4 months ago #445844 by LongRidge
Replied by LongRidge on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
After 15 years I know now NOT to form an opinion before i see the animal as more often than not the reality is different to the assumptions.

Hmmm, that's an interesting concept. My father with 40 years experience learnt early on that he should try to work out what was needed for the job by the discription given. Otherwise he would have gone to calvings without the lube and chains, or milk fever without the calcium borogluconate, or chokings without the anaesthetic and probang, etc, etc, etc. Even now, when I call the vet they ask me what the animal is and what the symptoms are, so they have some idea of what they are dealing with. Fortunately, the vet practice that we use have lots of vets, and we are getting to know who is good at one species and who is good at another. Thus we ask the goat vet for goat diagnoses, the cattle vet for cattle treatment, not the horse vet for donkey treatment, the sheep vet for sheep ideas but not goat ideas, the cat vet for cat treatment, and the dogs get whoever is around.

Mrs Daer, sorry about the gender mistake. Do you know which animal species your vet is best at? If not, always ask what else the problem might be, and always ask if any other treatment might help.

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11 years 4 months ago #445846 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle

LongRidge;445879 wrote: ...Hmmm, that's an interesting concept. My father with 40 years experience learnt early on that he should try to work out what was needed for the job by the discription given. Otherwise he would have gone to calvings without the lube and chains, or milk fever without the calcium borogluconate, or chokings without the anaesthetic and probang, etc, etc, etc. Even now, when I call the vet they ask me what the animal is and what the symptoms are, so they have some idea of what they are dealing with. ...

You're confusing two issues. If any of us were the vet going to treat this animal we'd ask those questions and take the likely gear.

Here we're giving/being asked for opinions on an animal of which we've only had some bare description. Of course people are cautious.

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11 years 4 months ago #445872 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle

LongRidge;445879 wrote:
Hmmm, that's an interesting concept. My father with 40 years experience learnt early on that he should try to work out what was needed for the job by the discription given. Otherwise he would have gone to calvings without the lube and chains, or milk fever without the calcium borogluconate, or chokings without the anaesthetic and probang, etc, etc, etc. Even now, when I call the vet they ask me what the animal is and what the symptoms are, so they have some idea of what they are dealing with.


LR you underestimate how much gear we carry in our trucks. You never know what you are going to get so you are pretty much prepared for anything.
A full calving kit, metabolics, anaethestics, wide range of antibiotics, poisoning treatments, bandaging, lameness gear, restraints, diagnositic gear, and a full surgical kit are ALWAYS on board year round. Given that many of our calls come in when we are not at the clinic or go from home then most scenarios that come to mind are covered by what is already in there.


I love animals...they're delicious

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11 years 4 months ago #445880 by daerfamily
Replied by daerfamily on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Time to turn this around I think :-)

The vet came and said it could be pneumonia (or it could be an allergy). She has given us some antibiotics to inject into him because she wasn't prepared to do this job given where he was. We also have some fluids to inject under the skin of his neck.

SOOOOOOOOO ... we will walk him down the road a few 100 metres and hope that he doesn't bolt on us to our friends on the corner who have a yard with a crusher. The vet said we should see improvement within a few days, if not, come back and get some more drugs.

In the meantime ... question for those with yards please, when we finally get around to building ours in the new year .. should we put a head bail on .. it looks like they cost alot of money .... or can we get away with a setup without one?

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11 years 4 months ago #445881 by Aquila
Replied by Aquila on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
Make one. They are only a V that the animals head goes into. Bit of feed on the outside and a bar through the rails behind the animal stops it moving backwards.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

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11 years 4 months ago #445891 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Raspy Breathing - Cattle
How many cattle will you have in the long term and could you, in an emergency, do the 100m walk down the road? Is it a busy road? A few hundred metres is less than our house-cow walks to be milked some mornings.

We're going to rebuild our head-bail, since the yards have probably drifted away into the future for a while. If you build without, allow for where one could be later installed - even if it's not you who eventually puts it in.

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