What is the cover period of these drenches?

More
11 years 7 months ago #33273 by topcat83
As we've had a worm (Haemunchus Contortus/Barbers Pole) problem, we've had to use a number of drenches, and will need to make sure that one animal (alpaca) in particular continues to be protected.

But trying to find out what period of cover each drench gives is really difficult! Many websites tell you the parasites that it attacks, and how long before you can use the animal for meat (not an issue in this case!) but not how long the animal is protected for.

So - does anyone know for these drenches what the protection period for Haemunchus Contortus is?
  • Matrix High Mineral
  • Dectomax
  • First Drench
  • Ivomec Plus
  • Cydectin
  • Genesis Ultra.
It doesn't matter if your answer is for sheep, cattle or goats - the cover will be similar for alpacas.

Once I know I'm putting it on my own website so that others don't have to spend hours hunting for the same information!

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442257 by hilldweller
I may be wrong but I don't think they work quite like that - they deal to what's there in the animal at the time of the drench but don't prevent further problems as further larvae (not sure that's the correct word?) are ingested. Happy to be corrected....

hilldweller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442262 by LongRidge
The active ingredient is at a concentration that will kill the bugs inside the animal for about 4 days, but perhaps less. Injection will be at a kill dose for longer than a pour-on which will be longer than an oral drench. With an injection, every bit that you give stays inside the animal. With a pour-on, some might not get into the animal, and with a drench some is spat out, and some bypasses the rumen so gets expelled on the poo sooner than what gets into the rumen and absorped into the blood.
As hd implies, with such a short action period there is absolutely no point in drenching if there is no risk because they are eating long grass, or the temperature is too cold or too hot for the Heamonchus to be a problem.
Because the kill dose time is so short, any live worms that get eaten just after the the dose is not quite high enough to kill will not be killed. But they will be getting used to the active ingredient so forming a resistance to it.
The theory behind "quarantine drenching", which is giving another drench a day or two after the previous drench, perhaps as many as 5 times, is so that the active ingredient stays at a lethal dose (to the worms) for long enough to kill plenty or all of the live worms in the animal/s. This animal of yours may need to be quarantine drenched.
But never drench all the animals at the same time.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442294 by cowvet
it would be dangerous to give a ''length of cover'' recipe. In a high challenge situation someone is going to get burnt....and in a low challenge situation you are going to be overtreating.

Parasite management is an individual thing...your stocking rate, pasture rotation and environment/climate are going to make your parasite management unique. even on your own property it will/should change from year to year


I love animals...they're delicious

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442313 by topcat83
Hm... unfortunately none of those answers really helps my situation (although many thanks for them).
Through necessity because of the situation we have, I have read up extensively on the dangers of over- and under-dosing (and how drench resistant worms can be bred), and all manner of parasite management papers.

So for the majority of my herd I will be carefully 'pasture managing' them, taking faecal samples at regular intervals and only treating for worms when necessary.

But for this one alpaca, she has been so ill I can't afford for her to pick up another dose of haemunchus. She was recovering at one stage, then went suddenly downhill and nearly died even though an FEC was showing zero eggs, because of juvenile haemunchus in her gut. We are also in a situation where we can't move her to a guaranteed worm free paddock, as she needs the shelter of the barn at night (and will do for a while to come). So for this one alpaca, I need continuous cover.

I don't want to dose her if it is unneccessary. But we can't afford a gap in her cover. And I want to give her a long acting drench. Hence why I really need to know what is the average cover period for each of these drenches.

I think that Genesis Ultra is approx 42 days, and I will probably be going with that next. But as the last drench I gave her was Matrix High Mineral, I'd like confirmation of how long the cover on that is so I know when I should be giving her the Genesis Ultra.

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442315 by muri
I am not sure if you are confusing withholding period for meat with a cover period.
The answers above> I thought, have already indicated there is no cover period that can be guaranteed by each of the different drenches

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442332 by Barclay
From a purely chemical point of view you can probably find the half-life for any active ingredient online. 5 half-lives is functionally equal to eliminated for many drugs, which will answer your question.

BUT... I strongly encourage a discussion with your vet before commencing any aggressive worm control program, especially with 'pacas as there is no product licensed for use in camelids in this country (that I know of).

They will likely have other ideas or options on how to protect this particularly prone animal. Heavy-handed drench use is rarely the only answer for difficult worm control.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442336 by cowvet
It must be months and months since the alpacas brush with Hc - I'd be asking why so poorly still. It is not a year round problem by any stretch of the imagination


I love animals...they're delicious

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442348 by LongRidge
The "withholding period" has absolutely nothing to do with the "lethal dose period" even with Cydectin and all their criminal advertising. The "withholding period" is the length of time that the drug stays inside the last 1% of the animals that were tested. The killing dose is hugely higher than the "able to be found" quantity.
Always as in ALWAYS consider that the active ingredient will only work for 4 days.
Why do you think that your alpaca has Haemonchus problems? Unless you actually got them isolated as the causitive worm, you are just guessing.
As cowvet might have implied, Haemonchus should not have been a problem for the last 6 months, so why do you know that your alpaca is at risk now?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442349 by muri
As cowvet might have implied, Haemonchus should not have been a problem for the last 6 months, so why do you know that your alpaca is at risk now?[/quote]
Well actually, the vet at the seminar we had last month here in auckland said he had seen cases of haemanchus in winter.
But i would also agree that once an animal has recovered from it, they dont take long to come right.
Perhaps alpacas are different?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442359 by topcat83

muri;441954 wrote: I am not sure if you are confusing withholding period for meat with a cover period.
The answers above> I thought, have already indicated there is no cover period that can be guaranteed by each of the different drenches

Absolutely not - no confusion. And I know that there is no guaranteed cover period, but some drenches definitely have a longer cover period than others.
I'm just after 'averages' so that I have some better knowledge to base my judgements on.

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442361 by topcat83

Barclay;441973 wrote: From a purely chemical point of view you can probably find the half-life for any active ingredient online.

Nope - that's my problem. I have hunted the internet and it is hugely difficult to find this information

BUT... I strongly encourage a discussion with your vet before commencing any aggressive worm control program, especially with 'pacas as there is no product licensed for use in camelids in this country (that I know of).

They will likely have other ideas or options on how to protect this particularly prone animal. Heavy-handed drench use is rarely the only answer for difficult worm control.

This is all done after many consultations with our vet (and others). He is the first to admit that there are very few vets in the country/world who have huge experience with alpacas in general. Often it is the alpaca breeders who are advising the vet!

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442362 by topcat83

cowvet;441977 wrote: It must be months and months since the alpacas brush with Hc - I'd be asking why so poorly still. It is not a year round problem by any stretch of the imagination

No - it is not months. This winter has seen an outbreak of it in our area - not just with our block. And there were other circumstances - she had just had a cria, and there was a lack of certain minerals in our soil, which made her susceptible in other ways.

That doesn't alter the fact that for this particular animal we must protect her from Haemunchus. So the original question still stands - what is the (average) cover period for these drenches.

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442363 by topcat83

LongRidge;441990 wrote: Why do you think that your alpaca has Haemonchus problems? Unless you actually got them isolated as the causitive worm, you are just guessing.

Because the vet had the eggs 'grown out' and had it confirmed.

As cowvet might have implied, Haemonchus should not have been a problem for the last 6 months, so why do you know that your alpaca is at risk now?

See previous reply - it is haemunchus.

Believe me, we have done our homework on this one. I never want to be in the situation again where I see much loved animals go downhill so quickly. Hence why I need to know as much as I can about the drenches that I can use to stop it happening again.

Oh dear - this is addictive. Now up to 4 alpaca boys, 6 girls (3 pregnant ones), a beautiful cria, a quarter of a stud (I hope we get the dangly bits) and six more girls on the way. The sheep who thinks he's an alpaca goes to meet some new friends tomorrow, we're down to 1 rescue cat, but are still...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 7 months ago #442365 by LongRidge
The only reliable answer for all of the drenches is 4 days maximum.
And that will depend on the drench technique, the accuracy that you measure the animals weight, the amount of exposure of the worms to the drench family (many drenches belong to the same "family" even though they have different names), the climatic conditions, the pasture plant types, the pasture length, the period since the previous grazing, the health of the animals, and no doubt other factors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.146 seconds