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11 years 10 months ago #432537 by ccrk9
the whole thing is a complex mess for small block people who only keep cattle for the freezer.

We have one calf each year in shares with a neighbour so that at homekill time we get half a beast each for the freezer. Each calf is a free bobby run on by the neigbour(who is given a calf or two as a bonus on the dairy farm where they work) to weaning then moved to our place to graze till killing time.

As joint owners we both take care of the animal (s). When I rang NAIT I was told I would have to register as the PICA as they were on my land. And I was told I didnt need a AH number (we dont have one) to register. Then we did did need a AH number. In the end we gave up and the other co owners did the registration as they have a AH number . Alot of fuss for an animal that is ending up home killed. And who is going to check that the homekills are registered ?? the homekill man at slaughter?? We could have easily slipped under the radar had we wanted to.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 10 months ago #432540 by RichardW
Exactly ,if and when i do do end up getting some stinking ear tag,its only going to end up sitting at the back of a draw some where because i'm never going to waste my time sticking it in our pet cows ear anyway,what's the point!!,as it is she's going to be on record that she's on our property is case of a disease outbreak,which i'm ok with,but i DON'T see the need to buy an ear tag when she' going to end up one day been buried on our place,hence why a exemption system of some kind is much fairer way for people like us.

Running superfine Merino's for 15 years drench free and seed grower, sold through www.sentinelsgroup.co.nz/


Inventor of Watson multishears www.watsonmultishears.co.nz

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11 years 10 months ago #432544 by Sue
ccrk9, your calf will or should be already tagged when it arrives, and the person moving it-free or not, should register the movement-and they have to say where it goes, and you as the person in charge (PICA) will/should acknowledge where it is to complete the transaction.
That way, if everyone does what is meant, all cattle should be able to be traced, should any sort of Biosecurity need arise.

RichardW, even if you don't put a tag in your cows ear, and you have 3 years to do it, the authorities still need to know where it is-and how would they know if you fail to register with NAIT? An AHB number only indicates that there are animals, not which they are and if they are still alive!

I know it is a pain (in the ear) for most, but why should small block people have a dispensation? In fact they are probably the ones that are most at risk because of all the animals being bought, sold, swapped without documentation and just as likely to suffer from a notifiable disease as any animal from a big farm.

As for them being put in a freezer, or buried on the farm-famous last words!
I know of a poster on here, not many years ago who found they had to get rid of a half grown animal because their circumstances had changed. It wasn't AHB tagged, he couldn't take it to the sale, send it to the works, didn't have a race or yards to tag it or load it anyway, and a truckie wouldn't/shouldn't take an un tagged animal, even if he could load it.
If the animal is old and inedible, or young and not worth the homekill charge-the only alternative might be a shot and a hole in the ground.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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11 years 10 months ago #432674 by ccrk9
Sue, I understand what you are saying but my point is I doubt dairy farmers will tag a bobby calf that is given to staff as a perk.

And although I have the calves on my property right after weaning I am not totally the PICA. Thats a 50/50 job with the co owners. A PICA does not have to be the land owner but is the person who is looking after them. NAIT gave me two lots of info on this when I rang checking about registration as at first they said I didnt need to have an AHB number to register (I dont have one, the co owners do) then they changed their mind and said I needed one. The staff at NAIT simply didnt seem to know what to do with the weird arrangements some of us small block people enter into.

I know the co owners had a hell of a job registering as there was a problem identifiying the land they live on let alone where the calves are kept. Some sort of problem as the land blocks seem to be identified under the old big farms they were carved off from over 20 years ago. I will be interested to see how the co owners get on when their deer are brought into the scheme. Hopefully NAIT will have got their sytems up and running properly by then with teething problems worked out.

I still want to know who is going to enforce small block people like me to comply. If an animal is homekilled is the homekill guy expected to ensure the beast is tagged before he takes it away to processing ?

One of the reasons we wanted to register as we are next to two huge dairy farms who could be inspected, and our two beasts are pretty obvious standing in the paddock to any visiting enforcement person. But saying that, we are along way out, in a little known area (even to locals) so who is going to make sure all the little blocks comply?

Yes things change - that is why we are covered by doing the right thing, in case we ever have to sell a beast rather than homekill.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 10 months ago #432677 by ccrk9

NAIT Ltd;429953 wrote: Correct, if a farm covers more than one block you might need several NAIT numbers. To determine if you need more than one please click here: www.nait.co.nz/news-and-publications/nai...umbers-you-will-need

This one must be driving the big dairy farmers nuts. My neighbour farms oner 800 hectares and milks 1000ish cows. They own some blocks, lease some etc I hate to think how many numbers they will need.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 10 months ago #432680 by Ruth
It seems to me there are two approaches to this (and we'll leave out the pissed off bits which most of us are feeling in general): those who will comply on principal; and those who will not if they can get away with it.

The dairy farmer who is giving you a calf will tag it because you will insist it needs a tag before you take it, or otherwise you'll be in breach of the law.

This whole thing is costing a lot to get going. Please do what you're obliged to under NAIT, or you undermine the whole thing.

(No, most of my cows aren't tagged yet and they won't be until I buy a new head-bail. Yes, I will own a new head-bail within the next three years, so my cows will all be tagged.)

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11 years 10 months ago #432683 by Sue
My older cows are not NAIT tagged either, and but will only be once they are brought into the yards for something else, maybe for a TB test next year, definitely if they go off the farm before the 3 years is up, but not if it is to the run off 3kms away-leased under my PICA number. In the meantime they are wearing their 2 official AHB tags-so no room for another without taking one out. But I do have the tags ready to be put in!
Oldest cow, 1998 born, is still wearing her pre AHB tags, with no bar code, and a tattoo in the middle of the ear where the NAIT tag should go.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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11 years 10 months ago #432692 by ccrk9
neither of our two yearlings are tagged with any tags although I understand the co owner has just got NAIT tags for them. But I doubt the tags will be attached before they are killed. As we dont have yards its simply not going to happen no matter how nice natured the beasts are

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 10 months ago #432694 by ccrk9
I wonder how the beef guys are going with this. One neighbour who buys in beef stock to run on on his sheep farm didnt seem aware of his obligations except that the stock he bought had to be tagged before he bought them. He didnt really seem to be up to date re PICA regulations.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 10 months ago #432695 by Ruth
I've been surprised by how resistant some are, which probably also includes resistance to even making themselves aware of the requirements by so much as looking at what's coming through the mail.

I've been somewhat like that around forestry/carbon taxy stuff. I just chucked it all in the "later/too hard" basket and lost track of it all.

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11 years 9 months ago #434342 by Gunrunner
We are looking at getting 1 steer done via homekill and possibly selling off another as dont have the feed . Do we need to do paperwork for the 1 we are killing to say its gone etc . If we sell the other where is best place to get the paperwork from ?

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11 years 9 months ago #434343 by Ruth
Are you already registered with NAIT?
Do your cattle have NAIT tags?

The answers will depend on your answers.

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11 years 9 months ago #434400 by LongRidge
Gunrunner, to sell the yearling then yes you will have to be registered to sell the animal to anyone, and you will have to tag it. Unfortunately, life's a bitch .... :-(

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11 years 9 months ago #434484 by NAIT Ltd

Gunrunner;432994 wrote: We are looking at getting 1 steer done via homekill and possibly selling off another as dont have the feed . Do we need to do paperwork for the 1 we are killing to say its gone etc . If we sell the other where is best place to get the paperwork from ?


If the animal destined for homekill is tagged and registered with NAIT currently then yes you will need to declare the death to NAIT if the animal is killed on the property. You can do this online. To see how to record the homekill please follow this link: www.nait.co.nz/news-and-publications/nai...-death-of-an-animal/
If the animal is not tagged then do nothing with this animal in relation to NAIT. NAIT has a three year exemption for capital stock that do not move off your property.

For other animals that are moving off your property to be sold or to the meat processor, again you can record the movement online through your NAIT account. If it moves off to be killed somewhere else then you will need to record the movement with NAIT to the destination NAIT number. The receiving NAIT number will record the death at their location.
To record the off-farm movement you need to know the NAIT number of the destination and also the tag RFID number or printing on the outside of the tag. If the animal does not currently have a NAIT approved RFID tag, you will need to apply one to it.

To see how to record the off-farm movement (for sale or to the meat processor) please follow this link:
www.nait.co.nz/news-and-publications/nai...rd-animal-movements/

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11 years 9 months ago #434518 by max2
I bought the tags in bulk to get the quad bike glove offer from allflex and as the stock has been brought in for drenching, or for putting up into the big paddock after weaning, then stockyard tags have come out, and NAIT tags, drenching and ID tags have gone in.

For the life of me I cannot see the problem. If you are going to keep stock you need some sort of yarding in case of accident or misadventure, in times of drenching, transport or whatever alternative treatments you are applying.

If it means NZ has a reliable traceability scheme for its meat to promote to the overseas buyers then I am all for it. I have a teenager who will be looking to the ag/farming/scientific world for training and employment in the coming years.

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