Pumps and pipes - advise please

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14 years 3 months ago #21491 by Minifarm
I am desperately trying to put in a water system from the river as my springs are rapidly drying up. I have brought a Honda pump with a lift of 32 metres.

I was told to buy as big as alkathene as possible as pumps don't like to have there flow restricted so I purchased 50 metres of 50mm (right size for the inlets and outlets on pump) then I attached 50 metres of 40mm and lastly 32mm pipe. I am not getting the lift or pressure I expected.

Someone else told me I should have gone straight from 50mm to 32mm and this would help with lift, flow.

I'd really appreciate advice from someone with knowledge in water articulation, I need to get this sorted asap. Cheers

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14 years 3 months ago #311673 by wyseyes
We'll need a little more info
I take it your pump and water inlet are down by the river? How high above the river is the pump, (ie how high is it sucking to get water to the pump?)

What lift and pressure are you getting?

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14 years 3 months ago #311697 by Istrian
Although the pump is capable of a lift of 32 m (about 45 psi) you ned to know what its flow rate (liters per minute) is at that pressure. I think your combination of pipe is just fine. Probably the pump can shift a lot of water at low pressures but not much at its upper limit.

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14 years 3 months ago #311707 by Kevin and Perlita Morgan
Hi The first thing you have to look at ,is how close is the pump to the water supply ,the nearer the better .Pumps are not very good suckers .and what is the height from the pump to where you want the water to go
Cheers
Kevin

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14 years 3 months ago #311708 by LongRidge
As wyseyes almost said, the pump needs to be as close to water-level as possible.

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14 years 3 months ago #311719 by powerguy
May seem silly but did you prime the pump properly? If the answer is yes, then my guess would be the draw (intake lift) is too high. Most pumps will only draw a maximum of 6m and lower is better.

Other things could be some obstruction in the pipe such as a stone that has caught in one of the reducers.

Also as has been pointed out, the flow will reduce with increasing delivery head. Low head = max flow, high head = min flow.

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14 years 3 months ago #311721 by Kevin and Perlita Morgan
Also does your intake hose have a non return valve ,if not ,then each time you start the pump you will most probably will have to prime and bleed the pump otherwise the pump wont pump

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14 years 3 months ago #311722 by Kevin and Perlita Morgan
We have dug a well ,over 30 feet deep ,we mounted the pump onto a truck tube and thn lowered the tube with the pump attach ,down into the well ,The tube floats on the water ,and rises or lowers depend on the activity of the water tasble level ,The pump only has to suck the water from 1 foot .at all times ,.The pump is a 1 HP and pumps water up 40 feet to a water storage tank ,The water flow is very good
Hope you can get some ideas from our system ,
To check your present systen ,i would disconnect the pipeline at the first joint ,and check the waterflow ,if satisfactory connect the first joint back ,and proceed to the next joint and repeat above ,
If the flow a the first joint isnt satisfactory ,then you will know that the problem is at your pump backwards

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14 years 3 months ago #311764 by Minifarm
The pump is very close to the river, it is probably lifting the water about 1 metre at the most, the pump has a suction lift of 8 metres. I have a non return valve in the filter system. According to the brochure that came with the pump...max.pumping/min (lt) 600. Have got good pressure at the end of the 40mm pipe but it slows down once it goes through the 32mm and starts climbing the hill. I have a 2100 litre tank (not positioned properly yet) and I would say at the rate its running it could take all day to fill up!

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14 years 3 months ago #311766 by Kevin and Perlita Morgan
Its sounds like our system .the water is pumped from the well up the slope about 25 feet ,and then up to the tank another 20 feet,the tank took a long time to fill so i put a 1/2 horse power pump at the top of the slope it now takes about 30 minutes to fill a 2200 litre tank .So it sounds like you will have to install another smaller booster pump.We have also install a float switch in the tank ,which automatically switches the pumps on when the water level drops to the setting of the float switch and then switches the pumps off when the water level reaches the setting for switching off

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14 years 3 months ago #311802 by Istrian
This link has flowcharts for various Honda pumps www.tidyco.co.uk/store/honda/waterpumps/...a_pumps_standard.asp I suspect you have the WB20XT model. You can see how head height (pressure) affects flow rate.

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14 years 3 months ago #311812 by wyseyes
The smaller the piping, the more friction there is which slows the water down. You may have been better off staying with the larger pipe size. Try and avoid any obstacles in the pipe, like one-way valves and bends. Your filter may also be already clogged, so keep that as clean as possible.

You don't say what height the climb is, but if it is say 25m, then your 600L/min becomes 130L/min. This may be further reduced to 100ish by the friction loss in the pipes, valves and filters. At 100L/min, it would take 210 minutes or 3.5 hours to fill your tank.

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14 years 3 months ago #311836 by Kevin and Perlita Morgan
I think your calculation of 210 mins should be 21 mins
2100 litres /100= 21 mins

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14 years 3 months ago #311861 by wyseyes
Hmm, that looks a little better, maybe I was thinking of a 5000Gal (= 22000L) tank.

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