How hard is it to be a kiwi?

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6 years 7 months ago #515666 by jeannielea
Daughter number 3 was born in Singapore. Both OH and myself are Kiwis born here of Kiwi parents. Sarah is a Kiwi by descent from us. She has 2 children born in Australia. They cannot be Aussies but cannot be Kiwis by descent from her because she was not born in NZ. She is married to a naturalised Kiwi - born in S.A of parents from S.A. So the 2 boys can become Kiwis through their Dad. To do so they need his citizenship certificate and a statutary declaration signed by a JP plus a witness to fill out the form and sign the photos. Not sure about their citizenship application but their passports must be signed by another Kiwi, not a relative, who has known them since they were born or for 1 year.
Luckily they have 1 friend who fits the bill.
How sensible is all this? Apparently its preferable to ignore blood and birth descendancy in favour of a person who was once the citizen of another country! And that is penalising Sarah and her family just because her parents were outside NZ when she was born. Had these been the rules when her sister was born in Indonesia we could not have provided the signature of another Kiwi in the area who had known us for a year - and there must be many Kiwis living abroad today in similar circumstances.
I sometimes wonder who is paid to dream up rules like these!

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6 years 7 months ago #515681 by muri
Replied by muri on topic How hard is it to be a kiwi?
Every country is different with its own rules.
My son, born in Norway, cant be a Norwegian citizen because nationality there follows the mother and not the fathers. Even tho I had residency status.
I think those rules were brought in to stop foreign women marrying Norwegians just to get citizenship for them and their children, its not a country that has opened its borders widely to others.

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6 years 7 months ago #515691 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic How hard is it to be a kiwi?
How come the kids cannot be aussie cits if they were born there? My Daughter is and was yet I was naturalized there having spent most of my life living in aussie but born elsewhere and Hubby is a Kiwi and never took citizenship in Aussie..

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6 years 7 months ago #515696 by jeannielea
The rules changed in 2000 so it is hard for Kiwis to get Aus citizenship and expensive and no longer guaranteed. But the boys would need to be Kiwis before they could even apply. Sarah cannot be a Sinapore citizen nor her sister an Indonesian but their older sibling has dual NZ/UK citizenship so all countries are different. My query is about the complicated rules for children born of Kiwi parents who should have the right to be Kiwis because of parentage and not be penalised because they happened to be born abroad.

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6 years 7 months ago #515697 by Hawkspur
Don't children born in Aus to permanent residents there from NZ qualify for Aus citizenship?

I can see why they limit the from descent citizenship eligibility to only one generation removed from NZ, otherwise it could be an endless chain, without any requirement for actually living in NZ.

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6 years 7 months ago #515741 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic How hard is it to be a kiwi?
Mine was born in 1998 so before any change. There has been a lot of reporting about Kiwi families living in Australia being refused Aussie citizenship for their children although New Zealand was always known as the back door to Australia so I see the point entirely. Another way to attack it to gain NZ citizenship would be to go to one of the Islands, get their citizenship and come into NZ under their agreement....

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6 years 7 months ago #515762 by jeannielea
The issue is not how can they get citizenship, but why can it not come through the mother who just happened to be born outside NZ. If the children had been born here (as their older sibling was) there would be no problem, Yet Grace was born before her father gained citizenship. It is very understandable that some countries limit citizenship for those born of parents from elsewhere who just happen to live there at the time. These two boys have a mother who has parents, grandparents and great grandparents born in NZ yet she is not allowed to pass that on to children who just happen to born in Australia. So how come the citizenship can come from a 1st generation Kiwi? That's where I think the system is strange.

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6 years 7 months ago #515772 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic How hard is it to be a kiwi?

Hawkspur wrote: Don't children born in Aus to permanent residents there from NZ qualify for Aus citizenship?

I can see why they limit the from descent citizenship eligibility to only one generation removed from NZ, otherwise it could be an endless chain, without any requirement for actually living in NZ.


Most NZers are NOT "permanent residents" of Australia. They are there on a special visa which allows them to live and work and pay tax but does NOT give them official permanent residence. So a child born to NZers arriving under the special category visa will not be Australian. To gain Australian citizenship a NZer has to first gain permanent residence and then apply for citizenship. This is a result of the rule changes in 2000. The reality is that unless Australia offers another amnesty for long term NZ residents most of them will not make the criteria for permanent residence let alone citizenship. This has the effect of disenfranchising the second generation, who have been born in Australia and consider it their home, but will never be considered for permanent residence unless they are tertiary educated and?or in a required occupation ( doctor, nurse, teacher, engineer etc)

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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6 years 7 months ago #515797 by Belle Bosse
What is this visa thingy I keep hearing about in the news that NZers need for Australia?? Or which was cancelled for the guys that were deported back to NZ this week from Australia??

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6 years 7 months ago #515816 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic How hard is it to be a kiwi?
That,s the special visa which can be withdrawn if you don't behave yourself. Its given to you automatically when you enter Australia, so you don't have to formally apply for it, like you do permanent residence. A lot of these guys have lived in Oz since they were children and have no family or other ties left in NZ so they are essentially being deported back to a "foreign" country. a

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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