Interesting article on glyphosate

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7 years 4 months ago #39124 by spark
Hi,

Today I spotted an interesting article in the local newspaper regarding glyphosate - I've managed to find a link to it online;

Phyllis Tichinin: Common herbicide under scrutiny
6:00 PM Tuesday Feb 3, 2015
www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news...62&objectid=11395755

Bon Appétit

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7 years 4 months ago #502060 by ZummersetGirl
I knew that I had a reluctance to use Roundup et al but couldn't put into words why..... Having read that article I'm relieved that I haven't used it on my current garden. I try to use the smother technique (black plastic; mulch etc) but how do I get the weeds out of the driveway? I tried hand weeding but they grew quicker than I could pull them up [:I] covering the drive with plastic won't work. Any ideas? What about the "organic" sprays such as Hitman etc? Will we find out in 40 years that they are as bad - mind you by then I will be long gone [:0]

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7 years 4 months ago #502067 by igor
Many serious commercial organic farmers use a flamethrower for weeding.

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7 years 4 months ago #502079 by Organix

ZummersetGirl;508020 wrote: I knew that I had a reluctance to use Roundup et al but couldn't put into words why..... Having read that article I'm relieved that I haven't used it on my current garden. I try to use the smother technique (black plastic; mulch etc) but how do I get the weeds out of the driveway? I tried hand weeding but they grew quicker than I could pull them up [:I] covering the drive with plastic won't work. Any ideas? What about the "organic" sprays such as Hitman etc? Will we find out in 40 years that they are as bad - mind you by then I will be long gone [:0]

There are a number of solutions for your driveway weeds but essentially you want to physically damage the foliage. Heat will do it either by flame ('LPG weeder') or hot water (boil the jug or use a steamer), or use essential fatty acids such as those in Hitman which are extracts from coconut oil. In all these methods the treatment aims to damage the plants' surface cells leading to dessication and death.

There is nothing due to happen in 40 years that will change the status of plant based EFAs :cool:

Harm Less Solutions.co.nz
NZ & AU distributor of Eco Wood Treatment stains and Bambu Dru bamboo fabrics and clothing

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7 years 4 months ago #502080 by Organix
Considering that Round Up has been regarded by many farmers and horticulturalists as 'relatively harmless' and 'shortlived', and so has been used with gay abandon on pastures, to chemically weed crops and to maintain herbicide strips in orchards and vineyards the amont of glysophate that is migrating through the food chain is definititely concerning, but not news for those of us that look below the surface of our food production systems [xx(] Yet another reason to grow your own or source Organic.

Harm Less Solutions.co.nz
NZ & AU distributor of Eco Wood Treatment stains and Bambu Dru bamboo fabrics and clothing

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7 years 4 months ago #502084 by Ruth
I've long wondered what the continual spraying-out of pastures has been doing to the health of the animals which subsequently graze those areas. I've never quite believed the "it breaks down in the soil/plant" assertion.

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7 years 4 months ago #502097 by kai
The thing that makes this article biased is that it assumes people are spraying the soil rather than the weed leaves. If I can see the soil, there obviously is no weed on it, so why would I spray it?

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7 years 4 months ago #502098 by Organix

kai;508058 wrote: The thing that makes this article biased is that it assumes people are spraying the soil rather than the weed leaves. If I can see the soil, there obviously is no weed on it, so why would I spray it?

So where do the dead (sprayed) leaves go if not into the leaf litter/soil, plus the dead contaminated roots, and of course the overspray :rolleyes:

The toxins that we spread around our environment never just disappear.

Harm Less Solutions.co.nz
NZ & AU distributor of Eco Wood Treatment stains and Bambu Dru bamboo fabrics and clothing

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7 years 4 months ago #502100 by Ruth
Dead leaves evaporate. That's why neighbours can throw pruned rhododendron and ragwort on the grass and not worry.

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7 years 4 months ago #502106 by cowvet
geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/01/05/wi...s-a-scientists-view/

I would like to see the factual evidence rather than wild claims. As this author suggest the increase in autism diagnoses is also highly correlated to increased organic food consumption


I love animals...they're delicious

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7 years 4 months ago #502120 by Organix

cowvet;508068 wrote: geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/01/05/wi...s-a-scientists-view/

I would like to see the factual evidence rather than wild claims. As this author suggest the increase in autism diagnoses is also highly correlated to increased organic food consumption

While we are on the subject of wild claims don't confuse "correlation" of ASD and Organic food consumption with 'causation'. And the graph uses Organic food sales, rather than consumption, which are two very different things. We as a population have been eating organic foods for far far longer than glyphosate has been around but the burgeoning Organic food market is relatively recent and comparable to that of the industrial food era.

To many the similar rises of the two datasets in the graph are more likely to show the rise in Organic food sales being driven by the increasing numbers of consumers who distrust the integrity of conventionally grown food rather than Organic food sales causing ASD, and maybe they are onto something :rolleyes:

Personally I'm of the opinion that the declines in the gut (and bodily) biome of much of the Western world are as a result of far more than just one environmental toxin, and it is also causative of far more of our health afflictions than just ASD.

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7 years 4 months ago #502121 by cowvet

Organix;508085 wrote: While we are on the subject of wild claims don't confuse "correlation" of ASD and Organic food consumption with 'causation'. And the graph uses Organic food sales, rather than consumption, which are two very different things. We as a population have been eating organic foods for far far longer than glyphosate has been around but the burgeoning Organic food market is relatively recent and comparable to that of the industrial food era.

To many the similar rises of the two datasets in the graph are more likely to show the rise in Organic food sales being driven by the increasing numbers of consumers who distrust the integrity of conventionally grown food rather than Organic food sales causing ASD, and maybe they are onto something :rolleyes:

Personally I'm of the opinion that the declines in the gut (and bodily) biome of much of the Western world are as a result of far more than just one environmental toxin, and it is also causative of far more of our health afflictions than just ASD.

My comments were as tongue in checks as the article I linked. I think if you had read it you would have got the correct context of my post.


I love animals...they're delicious

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7 years 4 months ago #502125 by Anakei
As an organic grower I have never used Roundup on my vegetable garden but have been guilty of using it on driveways and fence lines. I have never believed the hype that round up was the source of all evil and thought that the greenies were using it as a shorthand catch all when they were talking about pesticides and herbicides, dumbing it down to get the message across. Certainly there are much more toxic herbicides and pesticides available. When I did my Spraysafe certification we were told that Roundup broke down into elements that were normally present in the soil within 24 hours. I have a chart somewhere which gives the half life of other sprays that are active for months if not years.
BUT
After the introduction of 'Roundup ready' crops I could see how being able to spray crops without killing them was just going to increase the use of that spray and now I am very concerned about the sheer amount of additives in the food chain and the fact that nobody seems to be taking into account the cumulative effect of all these chemicals.
So reading that article it just reinforced that we are doing the right thing in moving towards growing our own food and taking control of our lifestyle.

Now about that driveway............

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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7 years 4 months ago #502135 by Blueberry
"However, whether you are searching for a link between autism and GMOs or autism and glyphosate, your findings can be summarized in one brief sentence: “there is no data that I could find”"

and that is the crux, is it not? - There is big money on making sure exactly that sort of correlation will never be made. Because if anyone ever would be able to proof something like that, Nonsanto et all would get their pants sued off. and well they know it.

So we're reduced - on either side - to wild speculations, accusations, assumptions and piece-meal facts. And does that not reflect poorly on both camps?

it is utterly useless to try and convince a chemical-imbued mind to change their point of view - why bother? They want to poison themselves and their progeny - i say let them.

However, as i would never try to convince a chemical-imbued head to change their ways, I do not think my decision to grow and eat chemical free is any of their business, either.

Those growing numbers who care for their environment and are willing to make the extra effort to grow or buy organically - good on them.

[;)] Blueberry
treading lightly on mother earth

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7 years 4 months ago #502155 by cowvet

Blueberry;508101 wrote: "However, whether you are searching for a link between autism and GMOs or autism and glyphosate, your findings can be summarized in one brief sentence: “there is no data that I could find”"

and that is the crux, is it not? - There is big money on making sure exactly that sort of correlation will never be made. Because if anyone ever would be able to proof something like that, Nonsanto et all would get their pants sued off. and well they know it.

So we're reduced - on either side - to wild speculations, accusations, assumptions and piece-meal facts. And does that not reflect poorly on both camps?

it is utterly useless to try and convince a chemical-imbued mind to change their point of view - why bother? They want to poison themselves and their progeny - i say let them.

However, as i would never try to convince a chemical-imbued head to change their ways, I do not think my decision to grow and eat chemical free is any of their business, either.

Those growing numbers who care for their environment and are willing to make the extra effort to grow or buy organically - good on them.

I will make a very relevant but wild assumption....

One would assume that if Roundup were a cause the there would be clusters of the associated diseases in rural areas where the majority of the spray is used.


I love animals...they're delicious

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