Good on Hamilton tea drinkers unite

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10 years 11 months ago #35239 by wandering free
www.fluoridealert.org/studies/tea02/

So who needs in the water.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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10 years 11 months ago #462166 by reggit
Should have been a referendum in Hamilton rather than just submissions. Would rather have a wider questioning of residents as to 'yes' or 'no' to give more of an indication of how the users felt about it...:rolleyes:

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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10 years 11 months ago #462170 by igor
I am against flouridation of public water supplies and all other forms of mass medication.

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10 years 11 months ago #462185 by Anne
Well, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this is the biggest retrograde step a council could ever take. If you don't like flouride in your water, you can buy a filter - but in my line of business, the benefits far, far outweigh any imagined harm.

The people who benefit from flouride cannot afford to buy it, often cannot afford to buy flouride toothpaste and have life long and far reaching effects from tooth decay.

I'm very disappointed in this decision.

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10 years 11 months ago #462191 by Aria

Anne;463987 wrote: Well, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this is the biggest retrograde step a council could ever take. If you don't like flouride in your water, you can buy a filter - but in my line of business, the benefits far, far outweigh any imagined harm.

The people who benefit from flouride cannot afford to buy it, often cannot afford to buy flouride toothpaste and have life long and far reaching effects from tooth decay.

I'm very disappointed in this decision.


Yes the trend worries me as well. Hamilton apparently did have a referendum on it some years ago and the public voted overwhelmingly to keep flouridation of the water supply. Then in re-considering it recently, three councilors who are also DHB Board members were unable to vote as the council's legal advisors said they had a conflict of interest given the DHB supported fouridation. So three potential 'keep flouride' votes were excluded. I know a number of retired dental nurses who were practicing when the country transitioned from no flouride to added flouride - and they claim the improvement in school children's teeth was profound.

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10 years 11 months ago #462268 by kai
I can't see the point of adding it to water, the poorer less educated tend to buy bottled fizzy drinks to which it is not added and the sugar in them will no more harm than fluoride in the water could prevent. Also it is a method of randomly medicating people. For example it would effect diabetics more than others due to the increased amount of water they drink.
Surely it would be cheaper to supply free fluoride toothpaste to low decile schools

There is a huge amount of evidence to the harm of excess fluoride. I am very much against it. Should they try to add here I will campaign very strongly against it.

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10 years 11 months ago #462321 by Anne

kai;464081 wrote: There is a huge amount of evidence to the harm of excess fluoride. I am very much against it.

Actually that's not true, especially not at the levels used in Hamilton. Some studies show a corelation between flouride use and some disorders, but there is no cause and effect - and for each of those studies there are as many showing no ill effects. There are some very well done, tightly controled studies which show no adverse effects.

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10 years 11 months ago #462331 by kai
I have looked into this at great length and looked at reputable studies in many different countries. Before the inclusion of fluoride in toothpaste there was an argument for including it in some water sources. Since widespread use of fluoride toothpaste (in this country I think virtually all contains fluoride) and just general better dental hygiene now means the addition is redundant and causing more problems than it solves.

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10 years 11 months ago #462383 by Aria

kai;464081 wrote:
There is a huge amount of evidence to the harm of excess fluoride. I am very much against it. Should they try to add here I will campaign very strongly against it.


Kai, according to this diagram - Kapiti is flouridated.

www.nzherald.co.nz/water/news/article.cf...62&objectid=10889063

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10 years 11 months ago #462389 by kai
Fortunately it is not added to Otaki water, though it is in other parts of Kapiti. I will be keeping a very close eye on the situation in case they try and change it

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10 years 11 months ago #462391 by kai
Interestingly this thread has lead me to look at the effects of both fluoride and chlorine and the role that they play on magnesium deficiency. Recently I was in hospital with it, having never suffered with it before and despite taking a supplement I am still deficient.

We do have a water filter, as I could not stand the smell of the chlorine in the water when moved here (last house we were on bore water so it was not added to it), however because it is slower to pour that the tap it is not used all the time and not put into the kettle or into food, so there will be a fair amount of chlorine and the naturally occurring fluoride being ingested on a daily basis. Also our relatively healthy lifestyle will probably increase the amount as food is cooked fresh rather than buying deep fried takeaways and drinking water rather than bought fizzy drinks. And being diabetic I obviously drink more water than average.

Anyway having started googling I am finding link after link as to how these two chemicals have a huge part to play in magnesium deficiency. It is quite frightening to think it could just be my drinking water that is making me ill!

The filter is going to get a lot more use in future. And I think steaming rather than boiling will be the way to go.

I would be interested if anyone can find what the safe daily intake is for chlorine and fluoride, not the accepted levels in the water as obviously daily intake varies depending on the volume of water drunk per day.

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10 years 11 months ago #462413 by wandering free

kai;464214 wrote: Interestingly this thread has lead me to look at the effects of both fluoride and chlorine and the role that they play on magnesium deficiency. Recently I was in hospital with it, having never suffered with it before and despite taking a supplement I am still deficient.

We do have a water filter, as I could not stand the smell of the chlorine in the water when moved here (last house we were on bore water so it was not added to it), however because it is slower to pour that the tap it is not used all the time and not put into the kettle or into food, so there will be a fair amount of chlorine and the naturally occurring fluoride being ingested on a daily basis. Also our relatively healthy lifestyle will probably increase the amount as food is cooked fresh rather than buying deep fried takeaways and drinking water rather than bought fizzy drinks. And being diabetic I obviously drink more water than average.

Anyway having started googling I am finding link after link as to how these two chemicals have a huge part to play in magnesium deficiency. It is quite frightening to think it could just be my drinking water that is making me ill!

The filter is going to get a lot more use in future. And I think steaming rather than boiling will be the way to go.

I would be interested if anyone can find what the safe daily intake is for chlorine and fluoride, not the accepted levels in the water as obviously daily intake varies depending on the volume of water drunk per day.

According to this article fluorine does react with magnesium,

www.mgwater.com/fl2.shtml

I think the danger from chlorination is the production of Trihalomethanes

www.waterbenefitshealth.com/chlorine-in-drinking-water.html

It looks as if fluoride has a very small window of effect on children from it's absorption into the tooth enamel, unfortunately adding it to the body doesn't appear to be of any benefit, we keep absorbing it, older people can store 10 times as much fluorine in their bones as teenagers but it's not possible to do double blind tests that last a life time so it's hard to prove cause and effect, I just wonder if the high rates of arthritis and fractures are a result of this build up.

Here's another link on how the EPA came to it's limits of fluoride at 4mg per day, this is by one of their own, now retired so he can speak out,
I think 4mg per day is what you get from consuming 4 liters of water at 1ppm? so tea at 3ppm to 4ppm can easily exceed the daily limit.

fluoridationqueensland.com/blog/water-st...ed-by-epa-scientist/

Well as I am writing this I am having my umpteenth cup of tea so more fluorine in the bones. I wonder what my bone fluorine count is probable better not knowing.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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10 years 11 months ago #462432 by kai
Very interesting reading. We had a wwoofer from California who was only about 20, he showed me his brown mottled teeth - a result he said from the fluoride in the water where he grew up. He pointed out it cannot be reversed. As a result, he only brushed his teeth with baking soda to prevent it getting worse.

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10 years 11 months ago #462482 by kindajojo
I am against it in the water supply and never had fluoridated water supply growing up, we did however use flouride toothpaste and I have no dental problems.
but i have seem many children with rotten baby teeth, and they have sweet drinks on a regular basis and questionable oral hygiene.
There are possibly other ways of attacking the problem other than mass treatment of water possibly school milk?

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