Smart meters anyone ?

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459555 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic Smart meters anyone ?
Not having anything to do with smart meters - despite being urban - can someone enlighten me please. Are you saying that you can't read you own meter anymore and phone in your numbers? I check mine every month (with 3 month readings) and correct it in a heartbeat if it is too high. Sometimes I decide not to as I know the "actual"reading will be a low bill month. What control do you have?

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459565 by Akzle
Replied by Akzle on topic Smart meters anyone ?

DiDi;461071 wrote: Not having anything to do with smart meters - despite being urban - can someone enlighten me please. Are you saying that you can't read you own meter anymore and phone in your numbers? I check mine every month (with 3 month readings) and correct it in a heartbeat if it is too high. Sometimes I decide not to as I know the "actual"reading will be a low bill month. What control do you have?

hahahaha. Control.

No mate, the corporates have control.

There are many videos on youtube about smart meters. Particularly the effect on bee populations.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459566 by Akzle
Replied by Akzle on topic Smart meters anyone ?

eelcat;461065 wrote: Before they installed ours I asked about the numbers they were to using to charge us for estimated power - "we base it on last year's usage" - me - no you don't because there was a paddock here then - " we base it on the average neighbours' use" - me no you don't because our neighbours are empty paddocks, so tell me again how you base our power bill - " don't know, will ask" - me it seems like a random number - "yes well that seems right" - me, not on my account you don't!

'that seems RIGHT'
haha!

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459573 by igor
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Akzle, please expand on your comment about the effect of smart meters on bee populations. Is it related in any way to cellphone systems?

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459580 by Akzle
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igor;461089 wrote: Akzle, please expand on your comment about the effect of smart meters on bee populations. Is it related in any way to cellphone systems?

fairly directly.

if your smart meter isn't CLOS to a celltower, it will bounce it off your neighbour's smart meter. it also emits RMF or EMF into your house at levels which I wouldn't consider safe. but if you've got some spare after making a hat, you can wrap the meter in tinfoil to minimise emissions (again, look up videos, someone actually did EMF measurements on em)

the RF spectrum used is ~2ghz iirc, (cellphones are 900, 1800 and 2100 methink) which disrupts the beeses ability to navigate back to the hive, breaks up hives, causes swarming, generally mucks em up.

but yeah, look up some vids, it's been a while since i have. i heard em coming, looked it up, said "nuh-uh" and got on with life, sans-meter.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459587 by ccrk9
Replied by ccrk9 on topic Smart meters anyone ?
The thing that bothers me is also the interference it can cause to other wireless devices. I have a very poor T stick connection for my internet, using dial up on vodafones 3G network when it works (weather, large crowds in the area for holiday events etc mean it often dosent work and Vf admit we are borderline for coverage). If my cell phone rings while I am on the T stick I have to walk out of the room to answer as I get bad crackling on the phone. I also cannot answer my cordless landline phone when the T stick is working as it crackles so badly I cant hear. So what is a smartmeter right in sight line of the office going to do to my other electronic equipment ? I can only get decent internet coverage in the office, I often work out on the deck and have a cordless phone there so what ever the out come I will be insisting on the modem in the meter being removed. I note we were having problems with sky tv at one stage, pictures breaking up etc. and after talking to sky we were told to pull the plug on our cordless phone and remove the batteries - sure enough normal reception resumed so these things all affect each other.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459608 by Akzle
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ccrk9;461104 wrote: The thing that bothers me is also the interference it can cause to other wireless devices. I have a very poor T stick connection for my internet, using dial up on vodafones 3G network when it works (weather, large crowds in the area for holiday events etc mean it often dosent work and Vf admit we are borderline for coverage). If my cell phone rings while I am on the T stick I have to walk out of the room to answer as I get bad crackling on the phone. I also cannot answer my cordless landline phone when the T stick is working as it crackles so badly I cant hear. So what is a smartmeter right in sight line of the office going to do to my other electronic equipment ? I can only get decent internet coverage in the office, I often work out on the deck and have a cordless phone there so what ever the out come I will be insisting on the modem in the meter being removed. I note we were having problems with sky tv at one stage, pictures breaking up etc. and after talking to sky we were told to pull the plug on our cordless phone and remove the batteries - sure enough normal reception resumed so these things all affect each other.

you could buy devices with deifferent bandwidth requirements. unfortunately for some tinfoil hat conspiracy reason, modern devices operate on a very small RF spectrum and rely on encryption and protocol to differentiate.

hope you don't have a microwave, cos that really gets interesting with cordless phones. (particularly the older ones)

you should minimise the wireless sh*t you keep near you and your family.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459612 by kai
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Not all smart metres use cell phone signals to transmit the results.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459617 by Akzle
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kai;461130 wrote: Not all smart metres use cell phone signals to transmit the results.

could you be more specific? like, they don't use GSM? or UTMS? or packet data? or the RF bands reserved for cellular communication?

genuinely interested in any fact that backs up what you say...

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459637 by kai
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Akzle;461135 wrote: could you be more specific? like, they don't use GSM? or UTMS? or packet data? or the RF bands reserved for cellular communication?

genuinely interested in any fact that backs up what you say...

Google it, I did when we got one at the last place with no cellphone coverage and no one ever came to read the meter (and it was a lot more reliable than here with cellphone coverage).
There are 3 ways it can do it, GSM, RF or it can send a signal back down the electricity line (no expert, I just read it can be done)

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11 years 3 weeks ago #459683 by Akzle
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kai;461158 wrote: Google it, I did when we got one at the last place with no cellphone coverage and no one ever came to read the meter (and it was a lot more reliable than here with cellphone coverage).
There are 3 ways it can do it, GSM, RF or it can send a signal back down the electricity line (no expert, I just read it can be done)

well you need to be a bit clearer on what cellular means.

afaik, cellular is the modulation used to transmit the data stream. GSM= cellular (800 and 1900MHz), RF= cellular. (radio frequency... any or all of the above and more, but it's the 2GHz that mucks bees up iirc.)

the signals going back down the wire can be done (similar to ethernet over power i'd imagine, and the same method the companies use to switch HWCs etc) and i'd be interested to hear more on it.
HOWEVER,

even sending a signal down the line, normal power is at ~50Hz (actually fluctuates between about 20 and 60Hz), so the signal can either be sent as an interrupt, or at a different freq with different modulation.
again, would be interested to learn more, but not enough to go looking.

beer time.

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11 years 2 weeks ago #459695 by wyseyes
Replied by wyseyes on topic Smart meters anyone ?
NZ Power frequency is nominal at 50Hz, and it varies between 49.6 and 51.4 Hz.
If it gets to 49.8, automatic systems start to correct it.

Communication over the Power Line Carrier is rare, especially if there are transformers or line filters around. It is mainly used to turn your hot water system controller, during times of peak demand.

I doubt it would be used for revenue metering. When I was organising installs of power meters, the only two options for remote reading were cellphone or phoneline.
While there may be more options now (zigbee, RF etc) there still must be something out there for the meter to talk to.

I see you shiver in anticip......................................................................................ation

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11 years 2 weeks ago #459712 by Akzle
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wyseyes;461225 wrote: NZ Power frequency is nominal at 50Hz, and it varies between 49.6 and 51.4 Hz.
If it gets to 49.8, automatic systems start to correct it.

Communication over the Power Line Carrier is rare, especially if there are transformers or line filters around. It is mainly used to turn your hot water system controller, during times of peak demand.

I doubt it would be used for revenue metering. When I was organising installs of power meters, the only two options for remote reading were cellphone or phoneline.
While there may be more options now (zigbee, RF etc) there still must be something out there for the meter to talk to.

chur, thanks for that.
not having power any more i can't probe the socket to check, but i'm quite sure i've seen freqs above and below 49.6 and 51.4, certainly more on the higher side...
what would cause that...?

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11 years 2 weeks ago #459713 by wyseyes
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Drastic load shedding (like the recent Cambridge substation fire and blackout) would cause the grid to have too much generation, and a higher frequency for 5 mins. System controllers would instantly get the generation all around to drop generation to match, but it takes them time to adjust.

Drastic generation shedding (like a generator station trip) would cause the grid to have not enough generation to match the load, and a lower frequency. System controllers would instantly get the generation all around to increase generation to match, or drop load somewhere to balance out. Still takes time to adjust.

I see you shiver in anticip......................................................................................ation

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11 years 2 weeks ago #459724 by wandering free
I only worked on the power stations for 6 months so never got to know how it was done but they used to communicate over HT lines between power stations back in the late 1960's and probably still do, so can't see why it's not possible to read meters today with modern technology, maybe this can explain some of the systems used around the world ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication

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