Census Forms

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9 years 5 months ago #454558 by spark
Replied by spark on topic Census Forms

wandering free;455556 wrote: I thought color of skin was more a matter of evolution to cope with climatic conditions, maybe living through the ice ages gave white people a protection from predators, just a thought. :)

Yep, but in humans, skin colour is more about sunlight (or lack there of) than it is about avoiding predators.

If your ancestors come from areas closer to the equator (strong sun and lots of it), then you will probably have genes for dark skin because it makes it harder for you to get sunburnt. However, if you ancestors come from closer to the arctic (eg northern europe), then you will probably have the genes for fair skin becuase it allows enough UV rays through the skin for vitamin D synthesis in a climate that has only weak sun light and lots of overcast weather (back in the old days, vitamin D deficiency reduced reproductive success, as did having to stay in the shade for most of the day to avoid sunburn, so skin colour adapted to suit local solar conditions).

Cheers

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9 years 5 months ago #454559 by Aria
Replied by Aria on topic Census Forms
I think it's a good thing Akzle doesn't vote. :cool:

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9 years 5 months ago #454567 by wandering free
Replied by wandering free on topic Census Forms

spark;455578 wrote: Yep, but in humans, skin colour is more about sunlight (or lack there of) than it is about avoiding predators.

If your ancestors come from areas closer to the equator (strong sun and lots of it), then you will probably have genes for dark skin because it makes it harder for you to get sunburnt. However, if you ancestors come from closer to the arctic (eg northern europe), then you will probably have the genes for fair skin becuase it allows enough UV rays through the skin for vitamin D synthesis in a climate that has only weak sun light and lots of overcast weather (back in the old days, vitamin D deficiency reduced reproductive success, as did having to stay in the shade for most of the day to avoid sunburn, so skin colour adapted to suit local solar conditions).

Cheers

I thought after I posted the remark it was wrong, you would have to have no clothes on for white to have any relevance, then you would freeze to death before a predator got you.

It is as you say all to do with sunlight and temperature, it even goes as far as influencing nasal width, cold dry conditions favoring narrow nostrils and warm humid wide ones, so we are just a product of environment and nothing to do with who is good or bad.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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9 years 5 months ago #454573 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Census Forms

Seaside;455440 wrote: F George Orwell'sLord of the Flies if you haven't already.

George Orwell didn't write Lord of the flies. William Golding did. I think you are mixing that up with Orwell's book, 1984 although his book was satirical, whereas Golding's was not.......................................
And having read further, I see you have discovered that.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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9 years 5 months ago #454636 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic Census Forms
Some if you may wish that this thread would just disappear but for the moment I can't let it.

I turned on a TV1 program this morning that was encouraging Pacifica people to fill in their census forms as it will give them more access to funding etc.

How many of you know that if Pacifica people openly admit that they are a mix of ethnicity, Samoan, Fiji, Maori etc and include all of those, then all the others are kicked to the curb and they are only recorded as Maori.

Two days to go and I am so struggling with filling in this form as it does not represent my circumstances in any way shape or form. I am lumped in with earning my income with people who own rental properties, but don't, so how does that tell Government any real outcome as to how "unemployed" (not benefit!) earn their money?

Another about smoking. I have said on here that I smoke but how can they eliminate cigarillos, pipe smoking etc - based on an assumption that they do not inhale the smoke? Rubbish! I did the Cigarello thing when I tried to quit smoking and ending up smoking 20 a day.

People on here are saying that we should do our duty and somehow what we fill in today will help in 100 years time. Rubbish! I have already worked out that I can fill in this form being deliberately evasive without being dishonest so how does that work for records, funding, etc.

If they really wanted to know about reality of NZ today, the questions would have had more thought put into them and then MAYBE there would be a semblance of truth in the outcome. These forms don't do that.

Incidentally, I have replied honesty in the past but the changing face of New Zealand just leaves me asking what the hell is the purpose of this "loaded" in my opinion questionere that is not going to give a real outcome. Each to their own but just putting my opinion up.

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9 years 5 months ago #454656 by arnie.m
Replied by arnie.m on topic Census Forms
I believe for every Census form not filled in the local DHB loses around $3000 in funding, so I hope you people who are not going to fill in yours don't get sick or even try to access the system, other wise some of us will miss out on our hip replacements etc. :( :(

There has to be rules and someone has to set them, other wise there would be anarchy.:(

arnie
88 Valley
Nelson

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9 years 5 months ago #454657 by Blueberry
Replied by Blueberry on topic Census Forms

Akzle;455535 wrote:

srsly. vote me. find out.


And yet - you advocate not to vote?

Do as I say, not as i do?

Sounds suspiciously like any other politician :D :D

[;)] Blueberry
treading lightly on mother earth

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9 years 5 months ago #454662 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Census Forms

People on here are saying that we should do our duty and somehow what we fill in today will help in 100 years time. Rubbish! I have already worked out that I can fill in this form being deliberately evasive without being dishonest so how does that work for records, funding, etc.


It isn't rubbish, it may just be useful to someone 100 years from now!

Have you ever looked up a census on line, preferably the UK ones because they have been going since 1841, and there is only details released up until the census of 1911?

It doesn't list all those extra bits about smoking etc that are on the modern forms, that is just stuff more recent governments have added. What it does do is just to state who lived where on a certain date and what their relationship to the head of the household was, and from 1851, what occupation they had.

You can sometimes tell when there was a bit of an attempt to fool the system-with wrong ages given-but on the whole-for a family history researcher the census is a valuable tool!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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9 years 5 months ago #454672 by Juzzy
Replied by Juzzy on topic Census Forms
It's not that i am against some basic information on these forms but the issue i have is the intrusive nature of some questions and that fact that the Government sees fit to make threats of fines when this is not a real law. It is actually against the Bill of Rights to force someone to fill in a form. It is basically a contract and all contracts are consent based.
The other issue is that i know how many lies and negligence comes out of the Government. That being the case, why would i give them more information than i need to? I have a position of zero confidence in the Government and i shall not be filling in my forms. I will not answer to my legal title for any agent who comes and asks. It is very very difficult to prosecute someone who remains resolutely silent, which brings me to another point: You have the right to remain silent. How can you be prosecuted if you have the right to remain silent?

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9 years 5 months ago #454683 by Akzle
Replied by Akzle on topic Census Forms

Blueberry;455688 wrote:
Sounds suspiciously like any other politician :D :D

hey HEY!, no need to be rude about it...

(read the rest of the thread, i've already answered that, if you're going to vote anyway, as many insist on doing, you may aswell vote for something that just might work)

Sue;455694 wrote: It isn't rubbish, it may just be useful to someone 100 years from now!

and the other things that area a matter of public record, somehow don't cut it? registrar of births deaths and marriages, registrar of motor vehicles and driver licenses, electoral rolls etc.??

lest you forget "genealogy" is not the reason they're touting for the census...

www.statschat.org.nz/

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9 years 5 months ago #454685 by Juzzy
Replied by Juzzy on topic Census Forms
Very interesting discussion here. I think that an informed decision not to fill in Census Forms is absolutely fine by me. Each Human Being has the right to say no or remain silent. If you are not harming anyone else or in a breach of the peace, how can it be a crime to simply not fill in a form? The answer is that it is not a crime. It is however, a crime for the Government to infringe upon the freedom of people by force. Effectively they are trying to force a contract. Contract law cannot be forced or it is simply not a contract.
The whole genealogy subject is very weak in my view. What is more important, the right to remain silent or the right to look up your ancestors? Also why all the questions. The US Constitution states that in a Census, only the number of occupants in a dwelling is mandatory.
Really the informed person must look at this in different ways. It is important to be philosophical and to also look at what Government is, how it should act and whether it is a lawful institution or not. Can it be trusted? Are we confident in it?
Also it is very important to understand how our Government is controlled at the international level by private bodies. In my many years of studying these kinds of subjects, i am utterly convinced of a few key things. 1. That our macro system at the global level is an Oligarchy. 2. That New Zealand is operating as a Commercial entity in global system of Commerce owned and controlled by private finance. 3. That Democracy is not only an illusion but also inherently wrong as a system even if it was not an illusion.
This is not to say that some decisions are made democratically, but all the very important decisions are not up for debate. One such issue is the fact that we are controlled by a global system of debt. This is never put to a binding referendum. Another is the position of The Crown, which is a private corporation and New Zealand's Executive power. The Crown also has immunity. This is never up for debate.
Upon inspection, New Zealand is a colony of a British System of finance, itself a much older system which came to Britain in the latter 1600's from Holland and Venice before that. In a very wide sense it is all a Roman System (itself partly Babylonian).
Any way you slice and dice it, it is ultimately a system of empire which seeks to control and expand. It is the reason the worlds problems never seem to get any better, why we have a massive war machine, debt machine, widening class and wealth gap, poverty and so much corruption. A system of Oligarchy is not a system of freedom and equality. I produces a privileged class at the expense of everyone else.

Knowing this intimately must produce a change of posture in people to one where ideologically we oppose our system. Not simply out of rebellion but out of the moral high ground. If our system is ultimately immoral and unprincipled then we have a duty to oppose it. I appreciate that this may not be how some see it and yet it is there for anyone who wishes to truly understand it. I do not fight all battles but regarding the Census, i feel that it steps over my personal line in the sand.
The worst case i have seen in recent times regarding the Census, is the UK situation where Lockheed Martin was given the contract to collect the data from UK households. Bear in mind that we are talking about one of the worlds largest weapons manufacturers who have had court cases pending. In that situation, how can a Human Being be forced to divulge their information to a private corporation?
When i look at this issue, i never look at it in isolation. I always look at it in a wider context.

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9 years 5 months ago #454718 by Gracelands
Replied by Gracelands on topic Census Forms
Well, it took 2 emails and one phonecall,but I finally have a number so I can fill out some census forms. Sometimes I feel like I'm invisible. Not a nice feeling, I assure you.

I don't know whether to be amused or despairing when I read on here how many people wish they could be invisible in this process.

"Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom and a little flower."
Hans Christian Anderson

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9 years 5 months ago #454744 by Juzzy
Replied by Juzzy on topic Census Forms
Be neither amused or despairing. Instead be informed.

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9 years 5 months ago #454746 by kindajojo
Replied by kindajojo on topic Census Forms

Juzzy;455706 wrote: . How can you be prosecuted if you have the right to remain silent?

Lets see, you murder Akxle in full sight of 47 witness's, video evidence and have previously expressed your intention to commit the crime in both writing and as a sworn statement?

You chose, is as your right, to remain silent.

Cant see a problem with convincing 12 members of the jury of your guilt, beyond reasonable doubt, in this social setup

However in Akxle's world you would be ok as it has already removed most to the laws, and the police force and all supporting infrastructure.

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9 years 5 months ago #454752 by wandering free
Replied by wandering free on topic Census Forms
I found the census interesting, the fact is they know all the answers any way, one of the questions is what is your total income, well being retired it's payed by them and the tax, and even the council have access to the figures, and I know that because when we filled in the rates rebate for low income from the council, they ask what our total income was and we said we would have to get back to them on that as we didn't have the figures, but they said that's OK we do, and looked it up and it was sorted while we were there, we actually got back about $17, didn't put much a dint in the $2000 they take.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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