Help with buying
The land I look at is part of the farm and it consists of multiple lots (some of them are DP, some allotments - no idea what the difference is though). I would like to buy the part which consists of three lots (1DP and two allotments) and I'm really confused what would be the best way.
1) how can I check of any of those smaller lots does already have separate title? Do I need to pay a fee for each and check with council - or does it mean that if it is allotment it doesn't have a title and if its a DP it does?
I've already checked maximum info I can get from public resources like Northland GIS etc but I just can't figure out how the titles work (as far as I understand the title is simply just a record of ownership with other property attributes like easements and covenants).
2) If they do have titles, does it mean that I can simple buy them as they are (means 3 titles) and I don't need to merge them together?
3) if they don't have titles, is it better to issue separate titles for each lot or merge them together and get only one title? Is it possible that council will put some covenants on the land if I try to merge them and therefore is better to keep them as they are or something like that?
Sorry for such stupid questions but I'm really confused about this and I'm wondering if there are any implications regarding rates (3 titles vs. 1 title), how many dwelling allowed, cost of issuing 1 vs. 3 titles and so so.
Thanks in advance for any help.
You would pay rates on the total land area, + improvements (if you build a house or a barn) and it will not be separated into rates over 3 lots.
The far north district council should have available the information you need, including whether it has a title on it, so you can build a dwelling if you wish to. You would be wise to get a LIM report, which should tell you if there are any restrictions, water or gas mains, highways or power lines planned to go through it. Your land agent if you have one is not obliged to tell you anything, except if you ask him. If you asked the right questions, he must tell you anything he knows which may affect the property. Such as does it flood (also noted on LIM) It is up to you to do "due diligence" and you should also work with your solicitor.
Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant
If the titles for the 3 lots you want to buy have already been issued, it will cost extra to merge those 3 titles together, so most people just leave the separate titles as they are. Under the "contiguous land holdings" provisions of the rating act in the Far North, you can get the UAGC remitted for the extra titles, so long as there is no dwelling on those titles, meaning that a lower amount of rates is charged.
As for how many dwellings are allowed, it depends on the zoning. In our area (General Coastal), you can have one dwelling per 12ha as of right, and with permission from council, it can be as little as 5ha. Other zones have different rules.
I'm talking with the owner directly and there is no land agent involved as far as I know. The land type is "Primary Industry-Store Livestock", when I try to put that DP number into Northland rate database I can see that the rates are for all bunch of other lots (7+ including those other two I want).
Does it mean that if there are no rates for that particular DP then it probably doesn't have a title (or there is no relation between rates and titles). Also if I got it right - if those other lots are just "allotments" there are no plans for them on council yet?
If so than the best (most economic and fastest) way would be to merge those 2 allotments to that one DP and then get a title for the whole thing?
I'm actually little bit worried that there is no title but the seller is not a developer and he just basically tries to get some money from his land so I assume I would go with some sort of pre-sale/conditional agreement to get that title sorted first. BTW he already have sold some other lots in the same way as far as I know and there were no issue (the land is far away from road up hills and there is no power so the price reflects that).
Is it possible to check with council over the phone the existence of titles and if there could be any issues? I'm based in Auckland and I guess I need to talk with someone from Far North council as they won't have maps in Auckland branch.
Where's the land you're looking at?
Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant
To be quite honest, I can't make head nor tail of what your saying, not because English is your second language but because it all sounds a bit dodgy. Do you have a lawyer? If not, get one and your going to need them anyway to do the conveyencing. There may not be anything dodgy about it at all but your lawyer will find anything that is.
If you want the name of a local lawyer, PM me. We picked him out of the telephone book and have bought five bits of dirt over 10 years using his expertise. Which reminds me that I should do something about a Will........
you can get the file for each piece of land from the council, in Kapiti it was $5 and burnt onto CD for you.
There I have no idea if the land is Maori land (no it is on racist to ask the question as some of it is governed by different land laws), if it is it can be very complicated to purchase it and definitely need a solicitor.
It sounds to me as if this is only a proposed subdivision at this stage, and the titles for the separate lots have not been issued because the subdivision has not been completed.
70m45;438960 wrote: I'm talking with the owner directly and there is no land agent involved as far as I know. The land type is "Primary Industry-Store Livestock", when I try to put that DP number into Northland rate database I can see that the rates are for all bunch of other lots (7+ including those other two I want).
Whatever you do, get a lawyer and BE CAREFUL!
Maybe you are planning to live Off-Grid, but if not, and you are wanting a power connection, be aware that Top Energy charges very high prices to connect you to the grid!
70m45;438960 wrote: I'm actually little bit worried that there is no title but the seller is not a developer and he just basically tries to get some money from his land so I assume I would go with some sort of pre-sale/conditional agreement to get that title sorted first. BTW he already have sold some other lots in the same way as far as I know and there were no issue (the land is far away from road up hills and there is no power so the price reflects that).
I was quoted $75k for about 700 metres of overhead cable, an 11kV transformer and about 200 metres of underground cable to the house site. I believe that in other areas of the country, you could get the work done for much less, but I checked with other lines companies, and Top Energy has the exclusive right to install grid connections in the Far North.
You really need to visit the F'nDC head office in Kaikohe and look at the file for the property. It will give you a much better idea what is going on, and you can copy any of the documents for a small fee.
70m45;438960 wrote: Is it possible to check with council over the phone the existence of titles and if there could be any issues? I'm based in Auckland and I guess I need to talk with someone from Far North council as they won't have maps in Auckland branch.
Before we bought our property in the Far North, we made an appointment with one of the council staff, went to Kaikohe and viewed the file for some small fee. The staff were very helpful in answering our questions.
If you are serious about this, and want to do the job properly, a visit will be well worthwhile.
All the advice given here is by people who are relying on the information you are providing. None of them has had a chance to look at the documents involved so it's guidance only.
Have been in your shoes a dozen years ago, and have learned heaps in the meantime. Even after those 12 years, i would not go where you are headed
The most important thing for you to take note is;
GET A SOLLICITOR
Honestly, 70m45, do not think you can work through all the pitfalls on your lonesome. There are too many things that can go wrong.
treading lightly on mother earth
I'm definitely going to get a lawyer but I just wanted to ask here first as all this stuff is pretty new to me. I'm little bit less confused now when I know that the allotment is pretty the same as the DP (the DP is just a new form of allotment
The owner is not Maori and as far as I know there are not Maori artifacts on site so this side of things should be okay. I'm also happy with the fact that there is no power, the solar is not so expensive these days and I think it actually makes you realize how much power you waste when you are on grid - the only power we need is basically lights, washing machine, small fridge and our laptops so that should be okay.
Those lots I'm interested in are old subdivision/amalgamations divided by paper roads (I did my research of paper roads as well - these roads have never been used by anyone in last 20 years so I'm not even going to try and close this roads as there is a normal gravel road close by (dead end).
I just basically wanted to do some sort of the pre-check by myself to just know if it makes a sense to actually spend money on getting titles/lims and lawyer.