Harvey Norman Photo processing

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10 years 4 months ago #30742 by Ruth
I don't generally peruse junk mail, but I always like looking at electronics, cameras and so on, even if I have no intention of buying. I went online to have a look at the HN photo deal, began the sign-up process, was asked to tick the terms and conditions acceptance and so clicked the link to read them. (How many people don't actually do that?)

Their terms for using their photo processing service either online or instore, include the following:

6. ...You grant to us and to our third party service providers, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free, copyright licence to copy, reproduce, display, modify, adapt or alter, transmit, and distribute your Photos and Materials for the purpose of allowing us to upload your Photos and Materials to Harvey Norman PhotoCentre Online and to provide the Service to you including but not limited to fulfilling your Orders, Provided we comply with our obligations under these Terms, you warrant that you will not make any claim against us or our third party service suppliers, for any use, publication or copying of your Photos and
Materials and you waive all rights of action or other claims you may have now or in the future against us in respect of any such use, publication or copying.

I.e. they can take your photos and use them anywhere, in any way they want to! I didn't even read the rest of their T&C, because there's no way in the world I'm going to agree to that!

Have you ever used them?

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10 years 4 months ago #414331 by Mich
Replied by Mich on topic Harvey Norman Photo processing
Great heads-up for reading the fineprint, Ruth. Maybe they have a wee deal going with the media, Woman's Day and the like, for any 'newsworthy' photos that might come in. :-) Just kidding .. well, maybe.

I suppose they need some sort of clause to cover theft and subsequent use of photos by employees or hackers, or other losses where the photos might be used by unauthorised people, but it seems extreme and way too wide-ranging.

It bugs me how companies expect people to hand over, carte blanche, personal information. For example, we were considering whether to pay cash or take a "good" credit deal with a local appliance store a few years ago. After questioning the information required for the credit deal we discovered that we needed to give out personal details of 2 separate people who knew us before they would accept our application. Not being happy to do that, we declined and paid cash. I can accept the need for an applicant's personal information being supplied, but not that of their friends.

Cheers, Mich.

Good exercise for the heart is to bend down and help someone up. Anon.

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10 years 4 months ago #414332 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Harvey Norman Photo processing
I don't think their clause can possibly be designed to contract them out of dealing with illegal activity by their staff! I think they slip it in because they can because people don't read them, or don't realise the implications. Imagine for example, the last picture of your dead child turning up in their advertising and being brandished all over the place, and you could do nothing about it!

I may have to write a letter or two ... when I have a moment.

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10 years 4 months ago #414353 by Stikkibeek
Wasn't there a big discussion in government circles recently, around theft of intellectual property, the illegal downloading of music and plagiarism? I see the theft or potential theft in this way of someone's photos as reprehensible.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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10 years 4 months ago #414360 by Xartep
WOW that is just crap.

I was going to do one of their photo books for DD's 10th birthday - 1st decade [;)] Might investigate the alternative options.

3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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10 years 4 months ago #414373 by arnie.m
Read it carefully, you are giving them permission to upload your photos to their equipment and copy and reproduce them to give them back to you.

That is the basics of it in plain English, photo reproduction companies have this just in case you or I want to copy someone else's photos that we have no right to illegally which has been done in the past. This gives them an out. I think that what it is.:confused::confused:

arnie
88 Valley
Nelson

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10 years 4 months ago #414375 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Harvey Norman Photo processing

arnie.m;410959 wrote: Read it carefully, you are giving them permission to upload your photos to their equipment and copy and reproduce them to give them back to you.

That is the basics of it in plain English, photo reproduction companies have this just in case you or I want to copy someone else's photos that we have no right to illegally which has been done in the past. This gives them an out. I think that what it is.:confused::confused:

You grant to us and to our third party service providers, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free, copyright licence to copy, reproduce, display, modify, adapt or alter, transmit, and distribute your Photos and Materials for the purpose of allowing us to upload your Photos and Materials to Harvey Norman PhotoCentre Online and to provide the Service to you including but not limited to fulfilling your Orders, Provided we comply with our obligations under these Terms, you warrant that you will not make any claim against us or our third party service suppliers, for any use, publication or copying of your Photos and Materials and you waive all rights of action or other claims you may have now or in the future against us in respect of any such use, publication or copying.

I don't think it's anywhere near as benign as you interpret. Certainly you're giving them permission to do what you're paying for, but they can do any other thing with your photos they please, forever, and you won't be able to stop them.

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10 years 4 months ago #414463 by RhodeRed

arnie.m;410959 wrote: Read it carefully, you are giving them permission to upload your photos to their equipment and copy and reproduce them to give them back to you.

That is the basics of it in plain English


But it's not written in basic English, its written by a lawyer and they will be therefore be using 'legalese' (I'm not being facetious here - it is a language unto itself) which is something entirely different again ... despite it looking alot like basic common English.

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10 years 4 months ago #414464 by Mich
Replied by Mich on topic Harvey Norman Photo processing
It would be interesting to see what they say if questioned about what EXACTLY that clause was expected to cover. I wonder if they could... Bet the people at the bottom of the HN foodchain couldn't.
Cheers, Mich.

Good exercise for the heart is to bend down and help someone up. Anon.

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10 years 4 months ago #414477 by Simkin
Thanks Ruth.

They have an almost irresistible Special running - photo collection?

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10 years 4 months ago #414501 by stephclark
ruth is dead right.. this is a sign away of your 'ownership' of the print..
say you were an amature photographer.. had your prints run thru HN, entered a good one in a competition.. nat geo comes along and wants to purchase the photo for publication..the copyright rights to the image are with HN not you..
and yes HN can use any image they like in anyway they like, worldwide and forever, with out paying a dime..
thats a nasty little clause..good on eagle eyed Ruth!

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10 years 4 months ago #414577 by Chris-HB
My take on reading it was exactly the same as Ruth. What other puirpose is there? Guess they could say it was for "training purposes". Can't see any other half-valid reason.

If it were for training, that should be stated explicitly with a promise the files would be deleted later/destroyed/whatever..

Far too open-ended as it stands

Chris-HB

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10 years 4 months ago #414578 by Kiwi303
By LAW, the Copyright of a photgraph lies with one of two people, the one that commissioned and paid for the photograph to be taken, or the photographer who took the photograph.

The terms include the following: "for the purpose of allowing us to upload your Photos and Materials to Harvey Norman PhotoCentre Online" so they may not use your photos anywhere except on the Harvey Norman Photocentre Online. (HNPO henceforth)

No resale, no advertorial use in print media, no use that is not on the HNPO... With that line if they use a picture of yours to advertise in their store brochure, you can sue them for breaching the agreement that the only purpose for which they may use your picture is to keep them in the HNPO.

It's an open ended storage agreement, and by non-exclusive, if some other company buys HN, then the contract is carried over to the new owner, unlike an exclusive contract where only HN would be able to store them.

You Live and Learn, or you don't Live Long -anon

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10 years 4 months ago #414597 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Harvey Norman Photo processing
But as the copyright holder can grant licence to anyone else, and in this case HN is taking that licence by your agreement with their T&S, they can do whatever they want with the photos anywhere forever.

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