UK couple driven to suicide by poverty and neglect

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12 years 5 months ago #402185 by Farmer53
A lot of those one you see on tv are not in poverty they dont manige what they do get in hand outs. they get enough mony to get proper food, child poverty it is rubish & people buy in to it.

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12 years 5 months ago #402187 by max2
Farmer 53 I don't agree with your last statement although i do agree wholeheartedly with your first.... my reasoning being is that a lot of children are being sent to school without breakfast, lunch or a decent dinner by their parent/guardian and they are not all from low soco eco backgrounds (or however that is spelt).

One of my daughter's former friends last year was being fed lunch by her group of girlfriends because the parent/step parent in the household hadn't ensured (and I still believe its a parent responsibility) to see that a proper lunch is packed for the day, whether they do it or not.

Its slack parenting and its got to stop. Personally I think as I said before take the cash deposits away, provide the food and meals in schools, community halls etc, and we will have a healthier less disruptive generation coming through and I cannot see it costing more than our current social support system and it will provide more employment. :)

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12 years 5 months ago #402196 by Farmer53
yes Swaggie, no food for break fast or school lunch is lasiness not poverty. i think that if schools did lunch it would be a good thing. i used tp send extra in the kids lunch boxes as there lunch got stole a lot, the extra was for them to give to kids who had none.

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12 years 4 months ago #402227 by igor
I often used to share my school lunch with another child who had none of her own.
I agree with Farmer53. Their is no excuse for hunger in New Zealand. It is a matter of priorities. The television and stereo are luxuries, not essentials, but many of the younger generation don't seem to get this.
There was a case reported in the "100 years ago" section in the Otago Daily Times recently of a woman in receipt of welfare whose entitlement was being questioned because she was always fashionably dressed and her daughter owned a bicycle. The proposition was that she must have been in receipt of some other income in order to afford such a lifestyle and therefore should not be entitled to a benefit.

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12 years 4 months ago #402261 by max2
I still don't understand why the people in the article didn't have access to an allotment, community garden or some sort of container gardening. the sallies are a resourceful lot, they would have had the contacts to put something in place....

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12 years 4 months ago #402264 by Cinsara

swaggie;397698 wrote: I still don't understand why the people in the article didn't have access to an allotment, community garden or some sort of container gardening.

All of these people could grow there own veges but unfortunately if you are down and out, or poor due to the number of children you produce, or a bad manager of your resources or whatever, the first thing that disappears is your motivation. It is less effort to buy take aways, or smoke or drown your sorrows in a bottle, so these people cannot rise above their "poverty".

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12 years 4 months ago #402266 by Cinsara

tigger;397236 wrote: Unless you know the figures involved, and what is considered a 'living wage', there is no way of knowing whether this is an indictment on the benefit conditions being too cushy or the wages he can receive being too pitiful. .

The money involved was huge tigger, something like 800 pounds a week.

tigger;397236 wrote: As for mums on DPB or equivalent...unless the kids are results of immaculate conceptions, I wish the spotlight would also be turned more often on the fathers of the kids who aren't paying what they should.

The girl I mentioned pregnant with her 5th child is married and living with her unemployed husband, the figure for her family unit was over a 1000 pounds a week.

mikethebike;397310 wrote: I think some of you miss the point which is that the current govt are bashing beneficiary's in order to distract from the fact that the country is in the mire due to poor management

This govt inherited the mess mtb, and have since had huge external things to deal with in the short 3 years since elected, recession, earthquake, mine explosion etc. A country gets rich on its wealthy and the brain drain (as an example) hurts us terribly, if we have to pay more to keep these people working for NZ then so be it, as everyone will benefit as the countries wealth increases, including the children.

bsadler;397614 wrote: family violence occurs across all social strata and to try and link it to child "poverty" is fatuous nonsense.

Hear hear.

Farmer53;397617 wrote: A lot of those one you see on tv are not in poverty they dont manage what they do get in hand outs. they get enough mony to get proper food, child poverty it is rubish & people buy in to it.

Sweden or Switzerland (can't remember which) provides a good healthy lunch for school children every day. The costs are covered by the child support payments given to parents being reduced by the cost of the project. I think that's a bloody great idea.

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12 years 4 months ago #402275 by bsadler
there is something else that polite society never mentions about sweden and switzerland. when these social policies were developed - and they did have a very high buy in by the populace - these countries, like norway (where i lived for 3 years in the late '80s), were racially and/or culturally homogeneous (i.e. 99.9% white).

now that all of these countries have embarked on the "multi-cultural" experience that concensus is breaking down. generally people do not mind supporting "their own" (i.e. those who share their appearance and/or cultural values).

supporting "others" is normally a bit of a stretch (and particularly when the "others" are disproportionally represented on the welfare rolls).

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12 years 4 months ago #402284 by kate

bsadler;397714 wrote: supporting "others" is normally a bit of a stretch

For some that is undoubtedly true...

Web Goddess

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12 years 4 months ago #402290 by bsadler
Perhaps this is why: "Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen stated that the steady increase of rape-cases and the link to ethnicity are clear, unmistakable trends. Two out of three prosecutions for rape in Oslo are immigrants with a non-Western background and 80 percent of the victims are Norwegian [i.e. Nordic Caucasian] women"

Non-Western immigrants make up less than 5% of Norways population

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12 years 4 months ago #402294 by Mich
I don't begrudge in the slightest having a system in place to assist those who are genuinely having a rough time. As (I think) Tigger said, there but for the grace...

What does get up my wick is the situation where we have young women having a child "by accident", raising it on their own with government assistance, then continuing to have more and more kids - often with different fathers - and turning the whole thing into a preferred career option. How do we deal with that issue? I can mentally deal with the first kid, but get real antsy about a production line.

Having had a little rant about that, I am full of admiration for the Teen Parent Units at a number of secondary schools that actively encourage and facilitate young mothers to continue and complete their education, learn good parenting skills and go on to good careers. From what I've seen there is frequently a real sense of pride in these young women, which is great to see.

Cheers, Mich.

Good exercise for the heart is to bend down and help someone up. Anon.

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12 years 4 months ago #402353 by canajanz

kai;396869 wrote: Some of the facts do not ring true in that article, although she may not have been eligible for sickness benefit, she would have still been eligible for income support and they would also have been able to get housing benefit.

Not if you cant prove why you are not working

Even here in NZ it is very easy to end up in that catch-22 position

We have just lived through a very minor version of this system failure. It has torn the family apart and we have NO redress.
All we can do is get on with life the best we can and hope that people who have enough dont always hide their heads in the sands of "our great welfare system'' ..that some of them will start to see that there are indeed cracks in every system and that someone will always fall through

Sorry ..I get a bit impassioned on this one[:I]

canajanz

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12 years 4 months ago #402356 by Cinsara
Sorry to hear than canajanz. Unfortunately there will be cracks in every system no matter how good, often it's not the fault of the system but a person's incorrect or unsympathetic interpretation.

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12 years 4 months ago #402357 by canajanz

3scoremiles10;397033 wrote: not due to increased freeloading. The jobs just aren't there. .

Everyone said "ooo you'll never get a job at your age"
14 applications resulted in 7 interviews and 6 offers.

I KNOW there are young fit capable people sitting at home in MY town collecting their benefit and I KNOW that the bulk of the workforce down the road from me is itinerant/foreign/student labour.

In a small town you really get to connect the dots ... employers place ads but dont get many takers ... no-one wants to do manual labour ... unemployed youth roaming the streets during the day and holding up the bars at night ....

There ARE jobs out there ... just not everyone is entitled to managment status.

canajanz

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12 years 4 months ago #402648 by canajanz

Cinsara;397805 wrote: Sorry to hear than canajanz. Unfortunately there will be cracks in every system no matter how good, often it's not the fault of the system but a person's incorrect or unsympathetic interpretation.

That's true too but I think our case highlited the almost total lack on communication between various departments.
They use some sort of patient sharing system to give access to all the services but dont seem to follow up by reading the reports. This causes dept B to try to implement treatments which are totally contra-indicated by dept A.
Sometimes the results are dramatic ... [B)] and devastating

canajanz

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