At last the crazy give way laws in this country are changing!

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10 years 9 months ago #400314 by Farmer53
glad its goin back to the way itwas when i learned to drive.

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10 years 9 months ago #400320 by kai
The new rule can quite simply be summed up with " if you are on the main road, you have right of way over those on a minor road at a junction". On a round about, you are on the main road, so there is no ambiguity there.
not to difficult to understand is it?
It gets rid of the give way ..... unless there is someone behind you going straight on or someone turning left who has not bothered to signal scenario. It gets rid of the you can turn left if someone is turning right towards you if there is two lanes etc etc.
Having driven in many countries, I feel this is the one road rule that causes more accidents than any other.
People here can sit and say, "but it is the best way to do it", but never forget NZ relies on millions of tourists a year who are not familiar with this.

Or NZ can sit and play at King Canute.

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10 years 9 months ago #400339 by WillEyre

Farmer53;395499 wrote: glad its goin back to the way itwas when i learned to drive.


I don't know when you learned to drive 53, but I don't think the new Rule, starting next March 25 is going to be anything like it used to be before the present rule.
(As a matter of interest, for anyone obtaining their first Licence after mid 1977, the present rule has been the Rule all your driving life.)
When I got my Driver's licence (in 1963) there was no rule!
The only 'rule' which applied to two cars both turning was that a convention called 'Road Courtesy' was used.
That is the exact term the Road Code preached - and blessed with a reasonable memory, I can remember the Testing Officer, Mr Hamling (better known as 'Juicy Fruit' - but not when he was testing you) asking me the question (it was all oral) about giving way when both cars were turning. And the answer to it was, 'Road courtesy applies, Sir'.
So, I am saying that prior to the present rule, there was no rule. And, for this reason I personally thought that the 1977 rule we presently have, was a great idea. It was logical, consistent, and you knew what you were supposed to be doing! I still know, and I don't need Refresher Courses yet.

In response to Kai -
I don't think the new rule can be thought of as simply as, the person on the Main road has right of way when both cars are turning.
In town, the main road might be obvious and will usually be decided for you by the use of a Give Way or Stop marking.
But I can think of plenty of country examples where there would be great debate as to just which road was the Main one.

Also, as a response to 'other countries' being able to freely turn left (or in the US,etc., right) turn through a red light, if the way is clear - Its a good idea and I don't see why we can't apply it under the present rule. There is no need to change anything to allow for that. People already do it at 'uncontrolled' intersections, by instinct.

Here's a bit of info that explains the changes, if you're interested:
www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation/road-user-...nt-2011/q-and-a.html

Ed

I liked Occam's Razor so much, I bought the company.

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10 years 9 months ago #400357 by shad297
Apparently my grandfather's driving test (he was born 1900) was to sit in a truck and was asked to "drive it forward, and now drive it backwards". Ha ha, he never owned a car and I never saw him drive, he died 1976. I guess this was during the first world war that he was in for a short while.

Husband, two teenagers, Stanley & Jed the greyhounds, one quail (Hawkefrost), one budgie (Chaos) small productive surburban section.

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10 years 9 months ago #400366 by Clods
Some of us learnt to drive in a different country, so that was the way when we learnt to drive.

2 horses, 15 Chickens, 1 goat, 2 pigs, 1 cat

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10 years 7 months ago #406492 by suckerpunchnz

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10 years 7 months ago #406540 by Seaside
The main problem I have with the current give way to right turning traffic is that the person turning left has to look ahead and pause if there is a right turning car. Then they have to look behind (to see if there is any straight ahead traffic behind them that will stop the right turning car), then check for pedestrians crossing. Most times this works out OK, unless the right turning car thinks it can speed across before the straight ahead traffic, but the left turning car driver doesn't.

The new rule is easy.

At roundabouts, give way to the right, as per the status quo.

At traffic lights and cross roads, right turning vehicles go last. No need to take into account straight ahead traffic. I know it will take a lot of getting used to, but I prefer it because there is no need to second guess whether and when the right turning car will turn because it will wait until the traffic - left turning and straight on - is out of the way first.

Kids, beasts, and chillies in Swannanoa South.
www.farmaway.co.nz

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10 years 7 months ago #406561 by kaumea

shad297;395492 wrote: I wish NZ had compulsory insurance for drivers at least third party, that one is so backward.


That is really something i wish too!!!!!!!! we already had twice the problem with no-insurance-at-all-drivers [:(!]! and i tell you it was b... costly the first time [:0] and the second time....beyond repair.. :( and the faulty driver just didn't care, he only had a smile on it's face :confused::confused::confused: so we have to safe up for another car and it takes a long time :( .
Third party compulsory!!!

I don't have all I love anymore, but I still love all I have...

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10 years 7 months ago #406603 by DiDi
Kaumea - does that mean you had no insurance too? If you could identify the other party, you could have taken your claim to the Disputes Tribunal if the damage was under $15,000.

I am not a supporter of TP insurance as all it means to me is the cost of insurance for everyone else who does the right thing and has Full Cover will go up. How is an insurance company going to recover its costs from a beat up old bomb owner with TP smashing into a Mercedes?

Equally, if you can't identify the other driver then you still have no insurance cover as TP only covers damage to other's property.

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10 years 7 months ago #406814 by canajanz

WillEyre;395393 wrote:
I don't care that we are (currently) different to the 'rest of the world'.
At least what we presently have is LOGICAL and CONSISTENT.
Like, it's as simple as 'you only give way to your right'.

Ed

There is no logic or consistency to the current give way rules.

When they changed the rule to what it is now it was to reduce the accidents caused by people siting in the road waiting to make a right hand turn ... and to reduce the accidents caused by the even more bizarre idea that pulling off to the left (then rejoining and crossing ALL the traffic at once) was safe.

Statistically it worked.

Until you notice that the accident rate at corners actually increased. All that changed was WHERE the accident happened.
Now the guy stopped waiting to turn left gets hit ffrom behind while the fella turning right gets TBoned by someone coming from behind the guy waiting.
Too complicated.

The new (old) right turn rule works in the rest of the wworld because it is simpler, clearer, safer , offers less opportunity for error.

Give way to the right (given that we are driving on the left) works just fine at roundabouts, cross roads, and when merging.

Our local paper ran a full page spread about teh give way rule being scrapped ENTIRELY
Have I misread the new rule?
I thought they were only tinkering with two or three situations.

canajanz

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10 years 7 months ago #406816 by canajanz

WillEyre;395490 wrote: As I said above, I may have the 'new' give-way rule misunderstood, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

The way I understand it is that the only change (to the present give-way rules) will be as to who gives way when both cars are turning.
At the moment, if the turning car is on your right, you give way. (Just like we do with both cars going straight ahead). Some people learnt it by saying 'Left (turning) goes last'.
Importantly also, this means you can see the car you have to give-way to out your driver's window.
With the new rule, with both cars turning, you give way only if that other car is on your left. This means that the car you've got to see and give way to is actually somewhere on the left of your windscreen or across the car and through your passenger's window.
I've heard people say the change makes it safer somehow because instead of having to stop, the left-turning car gets out of the way and around the corner.
Of course, but somebody has to stop!
And soon that's going to be the right turning car - the one in the middle of the road!
Does anyone authoritatively know how this rule operates in America?
If they have to give-way (yield) to the left I can completely understand that, because they're driving on the right side of the road and looking at the car they have to yield to out their driver's window.

I fully appreciate that complaining about this at this time won't help one little bit, but I still simply can't see the logic in changing what we have. And those twerps who frustrate and terrify us now, by being completely ignorant of what the present rule is, certainly won't become suddenly enlightened and less dangerous when it's changed to the opposite.

Ed

Yes I DO know how it works in Canada
And it does work

You wont be looking for a car out of your left window.
When you are stopped in the middle of the road waiting to turn right the cars you are watching will all be infront of you and to your right... very visible
Its simple because ALL of the cars coming towards you have right of way.

It makes sense that turning across traffic should GIVE WAY

THAT is the point of the rule everywhere else in the world.
Turning across traffgic is the most dangerous maneuver ... more dangerous than merging.
By eliminating MOST of the chances for error we make that safer

When you are sitting in the middle of the road your only worry is being hit from behhind ... and that still happens now. You wont have to make judgements about what everyone coming towards you is going to do.
When the road is clear ... TURN

NOBODY has said that you give way to a car on your left ... have they?
The major rule change is all about that right turn across traffic

Everyone needs to sit down with some toy cars and work it out visually.
When we travel in the US and canada my husband ( a kiwi) always comments on how much easier the traffic flows at corners

As I said in my previous post ... the current rule only moved where the accidents happened.
It involves a lot more judgements about what other drivers are going to do

canajanz

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10 years 7 months ago #406838 by WillEyre
Please refer to the illustration below -

Canajanz -

I'm sorry, but you have said nothing to convince me that the 'new' rule is going to be an improvement over what we presently have.
And to briefly reply to your main points -

'You wont be looking for a car out of your left window'.
Well, you are in the example pictured below. (This is taken from NZTA website; www.nzta.govt.nz/traffic/around-nz/road-...rera0CFYqCpAodF2o6nQ

'When you are stopped in the middle of the road waiting to turn right the cars you are watching will all be infront of you and to your right... very visible
Its simple because ALL of the cars coming towards you have right of way'.
Of course. And that's exactly how it is with the present rule.

'It makes sense that turning across traffic should GIVE WAY'
Again, agreed. That's how it already is now.

'NOBODY has said that you give way to a car on your left ... have they?'
Well, yes they have, actually. Look at the picture below. (The red car gives way to the green car on its left.)

So, it's still give way to the right. However, when turning, it's sometimes giveway to the left. And That's logical and easily understood?

Ed

I liked Occam's Razor so much, I bought the company.

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10 years 7 months ago #406844 by WillEyre

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10 years 7 months ago #406858 by Organix

WillEyre;402742 wrote: .....
So, it's still give way to the right. However, when turning, it's sometimes giveway to the left. And That's logical and easily understood?

Ed

Having to check your rear vision mirrors for following vehicles when turning left to guage whether you are required to give way to an oncoming right turning vehicle is far from straightforward or logical. The sooner we lose the current Mickey Mouse turning laws and move into step with much of the rest of the world the better.

Harm Less Solutions.co.nz
NZ & AU distributor of Eco Wood Treatment stains and Bambu Dru bamboo fabrics and clothing

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10 years 7 months ago #406863 by WillEyre
Rearview mirror guaging (sic) is a skill I've heard little about.
But as a longtime holder of a HT licence, I'm very used to using a rearview mirror for just about everything else.
It's a new one on me that having someone behind you or not determines whether or not you can turn left.
However, because the 'rule change' is a fait accompli, any discussion is pretty much pointless.
Logical or illogical, or whatever, you don't seriously think that those NZ drivers who don't currently understand or obey the present rule will be any better with the new one do you?
Ed

I liked Occam's Razor so much, I bought the company.

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