El Caballo Blanco

Toast;357418 wrote: Best of all I can go & watch Katie McVean ride her two lovely mares (& the rest of her team) in a Grand Prix (showjumping) or if I had lots of money go overseas & watch international GP showjumping.

Just a careful note on show jumping. I am not a horse person as such (like horse-mad [] ) although I have a horse. I remember the scandals ages ago in Europe when the training methods for jumping came out into the open. They showed crown caps like you have on a beer bottle nailed onto the rails,wires goacross the top rail and other bad practices to make the horse lift their legs even higher. And I remember very well one horse expert who said that jumping like it is done at show jumping is highly unnatural for a horse. In nature horses rather walk around an obstacle than jump over it. They only jump if they absolutely have to. And then usually only over one obstacle and not many in a row as done during show jumping. And he said that the stress on the forelegs (remember the horse isn't only carrying his/her own weight but also the rider) is immense and that most jumpers will get joint and lignament damage which will be permanent. They said that horses' legs and joints are not made for jumping over high obstacles.

Just shows that all things have two sides.

Cheers

Peter

emm peter.. i must have very strange horses.. cause i have two of them that will jump things in their paddock, even when they could go around them.. they regularly jump from one side of the bath tub to the other and back and i have purposely left a couple of big logs in the paddock.. cause they jump those as well...play time..
as for SJ ' training' practices.. see earlier post.. there sre good and bad riders..and good and bad training methods.. the bad ones are not the norm..and there is a much greater awareness now and much stricter 'laws' in place to stop this kind of thing..

stephclark;357423 wrote: emm peter.. i must have very strange horses.. cause i have two of them that will jump things in their paddock, even when they could go around them.. they regularly jump from one side of the bath tub to the other and back and i have purposely left a couple of big logs in the paddock.. cause they jump those as well...play time..
as for SJ ' training' practices.. see earlier post.. there sre good and bad riders..and good and bad training methods.. the bad ones are not the norm..and there is a much greater awareness now and much stricter 'laws' in place to stop this kind of thing..

I think there is a difference between jumping over logs or bathtubs and jumping over a big number of 1.50 meter or higher obstacles. But I didn't want to start a discussion like this. Just that every sport has its two sides. You could even start arguing if riding is good for horses since it is not a natural activity for them etc.

Cheers

Peter

just saying that your comment that they would rather go around than over is not quite accurate.. not saying a bathtub is 6' high..
horses will jump naturally.. and sometimes not because they have too.. but for fun.. they will also prance around sideways, spin on a dime, leap in the air and kick out.. all natural movements that they are asked to repeat on command.. no different than a dog being taught to howl/bark/roll over on command..
i would say that a well treated, gently handled horse would refer to be ridden than left bored to death in a paddock. they are intelligent animals that need the mental stimulation and thrive on the exercise..
no different than a dog doing agility.. hardly natural to weave in and out of pole, run thru plastic tunnels, up and over ladders and walls.. but they love it..

someone i know commented she thoguht these horses were cruel but she owns a racehorse that is whipped around a race track. Wheres the difference.

Steph I agree with you re; the sliding halt. I favour western pleasure
I have a Welsh x pony at the moment that I am breaking for a child, I have decided to break this one using the Monty Roberts join up methods and I can lunge without a rope, she is voice trained and coming on really well. i also own her full brother who is taking a bit longer to adapt but today I have been covering their faces with tarps and getting them to walk over and under them and they are really getting quite bombproof. I also get my sons to fire shotguns in the adjoining paddocks and they do not even look up now.Its great fun starting them yourself from scratch.

I agree that there is good & bad in all disciplines & that includes this 'new' western riding where the horses slop along on the forehand with their noses on the ground. That's not natural head carriage.

I rode western for a few years (about 25 years ago) & there was none of that then. The horses were in self carriage (rounded up, balanced, using their backs & hocks; ridden from back to front with a light contact) & were the perfect example of collection which I could use as a valid example against what was beginning to happen in the NZ dressage scene at the time (jammed in front, ridden from front to back). Unfortunately, that's no longer the case.

There are MANY things that I disagree with in modern competition of all disciplines (including showjumping & racing) which is why I no longer compete as I'd probably end up on assault charges!

I like horses to be happy & both their physical & mental welfare MUST come first in my book but I see it all too often relegated WAY down the priority scale in favour of ribbons & prize money.

Mind you... in saying that, if it wasn't for the way a lot of people do things nowadays, I wouldn't have a job. [] Come to think of it, I wouldn't have some of the FABULOUS horses I have been given for free either.

PeterNZ;357425 wrote: I think there is a difference between jumping over logs or bathtubs and jumping over a big number of 1.50 meter or higher obstacles...

A friend has a horse that was wild-raised as a youngster (St James Station-bred) and is a fantastic jumper. He jumps because he enjoys it. He gets grumpy if the jumps are small and boring.
He has been known to jump deer fencing just because he can. (Scary to see because we humans imagine what could go wrong.)

here here glopony.. we sound like we have been down the same path.. i too no longer compete and just have ageing 'pets' in the paddock.

Hahaha! Yes, I have far too many paddock ornaments! I still have all of my old eventers who are now all in their 30's, my Kaimanawas who are all too small for me to ride & my two riding horses who I just enjoy hacking out on but who knows... now that I have these two up & going, I might be tempted into a local event or two in the not too distant future. []

oh god.. 30's.. and i thought my dressage boy was a relic at 24..(going on 2..).. think he'll be with me a while yet..

the " saved from the meat truck" worlds worst confirmation TB is only 7 but acts 70.. hes been old his whole life..i would ride him, but he moves sooo badly, my old bones cant take the jarring

so they charge around the paddocks and eat..what a life eh?

Mmmm... the geriatrics are amazing, they just keep ticking along even though I've been saying for the last 10 years or so that "Sunny won't see another winter". He's the youngest of the three at 30, then there's the 32yo & 34 yo. The older two have no idea about age & still behave like teenagers.

I know people talk about horses being 'wasted in the paddock' but watching my lot (9 of them) playing, grooming each other, sleeping; sunbathing or snoozing in the shade of the trees, they look pretty darned contented to me!

My most recent addition is a freebie TB & he's one of the two that are rideable. He's AWESOME...now! He was majorly grass affected when I got him & 17.2hh of 'mad' feet & teeth was a little bit intimidating for most people so having been through 5 owners in 3 years, I was happy to offer him a forever home & a bit of stability. We can at least pretend he's earning his keep by being ridden & keeping the rambunctious youngster in line. [^]

i agree with you glopony.. mine a perfectly happy charging around like ejits and being horses.. they behave when i handle them ( good manners ).. apart from then they are nut bars.. good to see...
my ol fella.. i have been saying the ' gosh not too far away i'll have to make a call " as well.. i will need serious therapy when that day comes..
meanwhile hes slowly falling to bits, being a grey.. i dont see him making 30 odd .. but there is no sign of the lumps causing him trouble..
he gets his annual autumn wof check over.. and as he gallops, bucks, farts and kicks his way around the paddock, i tend to agree with the vet.. aint much wrong with him if he can still move like that!

Well i went to elcabelo blanco today in Napier having read this thread the other day i was expecting to see mistreated horses tense and unhappy but what i saw was well trained and i would say happy enough horses and i thoroughly enjoyed the show the only criticism i would level at it was that i thought it was a bit expensive and not long enough, and the programmes were 20 Bucks!!! so i didnt buy one! but otherwise it was great. and the horses were the stars by miles they were truly awsome!

I saw the show (same owners, different business name which went later went under before they bought the El Caballo site) in NSW not long before coming out permanently to NZ. There was obviously some issues from one of the female riders (mirror dance?) and if looks could kill from one of them, well..... it was a distraction from the event and unprofessional.

It was worthwhile seeing for the beauty of the horses but I wouldn't go again. It will be interesting to see what happens to the current trading business after this performance season...:rolleyes: