National Animal Identification and Tracing (NAIT)

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11 years 9 months ago #24545 by PeterNZ
I was wondering if I am the only one who is being concerned about this. Don't get me wrong, I am probably in support of having a system which allows us to trace an animal " from paddock to plate " as long as it enters the commercial process.

Did you know you need to re-register an animal if you shift it to another run off if this run off is further away from the registration location than 10 km?

Can someone please explain to me why an animal has to have NAIT RFID tag (expensive) if it is born on my property, raised on my property, slaughtered on my property and then eaten on my property? Is this so the government knows how much meat I produce for myself? And then charge us Gst. and income tax on it?

Looking at other countries in the world it seems that there is no example that a NAIT system a) works and b) brings some benefits. It seems that data easily gets out of sync with the real situation.

Is it true that there will be an instant fine (I heard of $1000) if an inspector finds out you have an animal not tagged or you have an animal missing?

Are we going overboard with this?

Cheers

Peter


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11 years 9 months ago #346253 by igor
You raise a good point here Peter. If an animal is born, raised, and eaten on a smallholders own freehold land is it anyone elses damn business? I think not.

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11 years 9 months ago #346260 by Clods
I thought you only had to register them if they were ever going to leave the farm, but it might be worth asking them directly.

2 horses, 15 Chickens, 1 goat, 2 pigs, 1 cat

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11 years 9 months ago #346263 by PeterNZ

Clods;335455 wrote: I thought you only had to register them if they were ever going to leave the farm, but it might be worth asking them directly.

No with the new NAIT EVERY Beef, Cow and Deer has to be registered. As in "every single one of them". If the inspectors come to your farm and you have an animal which is unregistered or you can't show them all registered ones you are in trouble.

The US (which I always fear is a "role model" we (NZ) do follow) have (or had) a requirement where every chicken needs a microchip. I am dead serious! Every chicken you owned. The exception were big "production places" which only needed one chip per 15,000 chicken. The argument was that usually all 15,000 or 20,000 chicken went into the barn and then out of the barn to be processed.

And I want to stress that I wrote this post not to criticize the system or talk it down or anything. I wrote it to get a better understanding and to see if I worry too much or if others are concerned as well.

Cheers

Peter


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11 years 9 months ago #346271 by Isla

PeterNZ;335445 wrote: I was wondering if I am the only one who is being concerned about this. Don't get me wrong, I am probably in support of having a system which allows us to trace an animal " from paddock to plate " as long as it enters the commercial process.

Did you know you need to re-register an animal if you shift it to another run off if this run off is further away from the registration location than 10 km?

Can someone please explain to me why an animal has to have NAIT RFID tag (expensive) if it is born on my property, raised on my property, slaughtered on my property and then eaten on my property? Is this so the government knows how much meat I produce for myself? And then charge us Gst. and income tax on it?
...
Is it true that there will be an instant fine (I heard of $1000) if an inspector finds out you have an animal not tagged or you have an animal missing?

For whole herd management (the whole NZ cattle pop'n) it is sensible to know where every animal is. If the system is incomplete, then some of us will pay very expensively for a system which cannot deliver all it is supposed to.

Animal movements will need to be recorded in the system. That does not constitute re-registration. One animal has one tag only of the RFID type, for its whole life (unless it gets broken or lost and needs replacement).

You are supposed to pay GST and account for animals used for personal use if you do farm accounting anyway.

Yes there will be inspections and repercussions if you haven't adhered to the regulations around tagging. If you only buy in cattle, make sure that from now on they already have NAIT tags and you'll be fine. If calves are born on your property, just buy some NAIT tags in place of the ordinary secondaries next time you do an order for tags.

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11 years 9 months ago #346281 by PeterNZ

Isla;335466 wrote:
You are supposed to pay GST and account for animals used for personal use if you do farm accounting anyway.

Oh I know, I am supposed to do a lot of things. Tidy up my office for example [;)].

Seriously, how does it work if I buy a beefie for myself? Which is not in my inventory? I could theoretically (even practically [;)]) buy a beef cattle, keep it on my property for the minimum required number of days (28) and then home kill it. No cost involved for my farm business. It doesn't appear in the books and doesn't have to appear in the books (my box of beer isn't in the books either, is it?) I pay for it from my own money. I keep it on the front lawn which is not part of the farm etc.

So why do we need a whole herd management? What is the benefit of it? Why does every blimmin cow has to be registered? And how far will they go? Will we need a microchip for every chicken in 5 years time? There is rumor that it will be extended to sheep, isn't there? So then Goats are next and then Alpacas. Rabbits? Hamsters?

What is the benefit of such a system?

Cheers

Peter


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11 years 9 months ago #346286 by Isla
If there is an outbreak of FMD, the system will come into its own. As FMD is highly likely to reach our shores sometime, having a robust system to trace movements and find animal populations will be of huge value. The holes in the present system became very obvious during the hoax scare in 2005.

If you buy an animal from someone else, it should already be tagged. If it is not, you open yourself to the sanctions which might result if an inspector spots an untagged animal on your property.

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11 years 9 months ago #346289 by Sue

What is the benefit of such a system?


The benefit to the system is traceability, if you hadn't already realised it.

For NZ to compete on the world market with our agricultural products means that our customers are demanding traceablity.

The fact is that the vast majority of cattle are farmed in herds kept on farms and farmed on a large scale rather than in 1's and two's "on the big back lawn'. This means that a nationwide system to be able to track where these cattle move to and fro, and when they meet their end and travel overseas in a cardboard box there is some degree of accuracy as to where they originated. In case of outbreaks of disease such as Foot and Mouth, or TB, it is also important as to where animals are, have come from and are disposed of.

I know that there will be a fair few anomalies to start with and I too wonder at times just how well the system will work but I am already putting electonic tags in this years calves in preparation for the 2011 deadline.

The fact that my animals will have to be recorded just moving too and from Shows, never mind the usual sales to other individuals, and it does not fill me with the delight of more paperwork, but for the good of the National beef industry I will comply!

You might think that you have calves that are born, grow up and are homekilled on your property should be excused-but what if your circumstances change and you have to sell them and they are not either registered or tagged?

One member on here has already had to face that dilemma recently with just the ordinary TB AHB tagging, when they ran out of feed and had to get rid of a grown beast with no ear tags. In this state they can't go to the works, the sale or even on a truck-legally.

Yes it is highly likely that it will be used on sheep as well, and Alpacas, as it already is on dogs! I think you might find that there aren't any hamsters in NZ, so you will be OK there! :)

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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11 years 9 months ago #346320 by NZ Appaloosas

PeterNZ;335458 wrote: .
The US (which I always fear is a "role model" we (NZ) do follow) have (or had) a requirement where every chicken needs a microchip. I am dead serious! Every chicken you owned.


Clarification...the USA has a law in place that says a National Animal Identification System be developed...said system has not yet been developed, cuz every time the PTBs think they've got the kinks ironed out, some group or another comes out screaming about impossibilities such as you mention above...microchipping every single chook.

So, in respect to a National Animal ID system, NZ is light-years ahead in development than the US, and is probably serving as a role model for the USA system.

Diane


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11 years 9 months ago #346367 by Stikkibeek

PeterNZ;335445 wrote:

Is it true that there will be an instant fine (I heard of $1000) if an inspector finds out you have an animal not tagged or you have an animal missing?

Are we going overboard with this?

Cheers

Peter

Well this would be grossly unfair if the "missing" animal was rustled!

I have read that the US NAIS scheme has been abandoned indefinitely in some states as unworkable.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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11 years 9 months ago #346375 by Jack
Gidday

PeterNZ;335476 wrote: Oh I know, I am supposed to do a lot of things. Tidy up my office for example [;)].

What is the benefit of such a system?

Cheers

Peter

Yes, the benefit is tracability, no doubt about that. And yes the scheme is very neccessary. It must be perfected and yes New Zealand is at present leading the world in developing it. And when it is perfected that is when they will bring in the NHIT scheme and we will all be in the crap.

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11 years 9 months ago #346376 by NZ Appaloosas

Stikkibeek;335570 wrote: Well this would be grossly unfair if the "missing" animal was rustled!

I have read that the US NAIS scheme has been abandoned indefinitely in some states as unworkable.


On the rustling, I imagine that reporting the missing animal to the authorities and marking any necessary paperwork as such, would give the authorities the right to alert the slaughter houses...at least that was my understanding of part of the job the NAIS in the USA was to do.

"Abandoned" not really, the federal legislation that requires a track-n-trace system be put in place is still alive, so the individual states are required to continue to work on creating such a system.

Diane


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11 years 9 months ago #346379 by Isla

Stikkibeek;335570 wrote: Well this would be grossly unfair if the "missing" animal was rustled!

If your animal was rustled, you'd report it to the NAIT database.

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11 years 9 months ago #346389 by Ronney

NZ Appaloosas;335522 wrote: Clarification...the USA has a law in place that says a National Animal Identification System be developed...said system has not yet been developed, cuz every time the PTBs think they've got the kinks ironed out, some group or another comes out screaming about impossibilities such as you mention above...microchipping every single chook.

So, in respect to a National Animal ID system, NZ is light-years ahead in development than the US, and is probably serving as a role model for the USA system. Diane


Diane, NZ isn't light-years of anything other than how to be idiots. The days when we led the world, noteably in agriculture, have long since gone. Your compatriots are standing up and asking questions, NZ'ers are just accepting it because they're told that they have to. So they will. It must be because it is for the good of their health, the good, clean, green image, the benefit of the industry etc. etc. etc. Nobody questions whether it really is, whether it's workable, and...... who is going to pay for it.

I think the ETS is a good example of that - while the rest of the world is putting it on hold, NZ rushes into it holus bolus with some brave, idiotic idea that it's going to save the world.

Isla;335583 wrote: If your animal was rustled, you'd report it to the NAIT database.


Fat lot of use that is going to be. It won't get my beast back and is more wasted time on the phone and filling in bits of paper, and as for traceability, well, there won't be any. I could only hope that I'd just drenched and coppered.

The whole thing is a load of garbage and I think the TB status situation is a good example of it. How long has that been in force? 20 plus years, 2 decades and they still haven't got it right. Apart from the fact that they have had more name changes than I've had hot dinners, if I rang them 10 times, got 10 different people and asked them all the same question, I would get 10 different answers. Which is how I was able to move all my stock from a movement control area to a non-TB area without having to have them tested first, despite the fact that they were outside of the 60 day movement control testing time. All they were interested in was that they were going from my farm to my farm, it didn't matter where in the country either farm was. I could have well sold TB infested stock within days of moving[B)] And is probably why a young friend is working on a farm with imported cows from the Waikato that TB tested up here, proved positive. But they came with all the right paperwork.

Blows a raspberry
Ronnie

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11 years 9 months ago #346406 by Isla
While there are holes in the TB system, how many affected herds are there left now? TB infection is vastly reduced and the national herd is on target for official eradication by 2013 as planned. Were there no system, we'd be dealing with a far messier situation than we currently are. TB was picked up in Northland before it got out into our wide-spread possum population. Without a TB control mechanism in place at all, that would not have been the case and that one (or two) herd incident would begin to impact on all of us in this area before very long.

Whether or not you are directly part of the wider beef and dairy industry, its success and access to international markets will impact your ability to make a living and for that to continue, a secure traceability system is a must.

Reporting a lost animal does not bring it back, but will remain your responsibility nonetheless. Hopefully such reporting online will be as simple as a first look indicates.

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