How do I say this?

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11 years 9 months ago #24443 by DiDi
How do I say this? was created by DiDi
Ok - Kate or moderaters may want to delete this thread but I hope not as this is of National importance and from a journalistic slant, something we all need to know about. It is not being given any prominence in the National News (understandable with the Christchurch Earthquake) but behind the scenes has been the first reading of the newly named "Common Marine and Coastal Area Bill" - previously known as the Foreshore and Seabed Act.

Please people, go and look at the Coastal Coalition website and read the submissions on that site that were submitted to the process. The only Party openly opposed to this new process is ACT. What the hell is Phil Goff doing when what the Labour Party dealt with was brilliant and inclusive of all New Zelanders. No preferential treatment based on race etc.,

I feel hugely a part of this from having immigrant relatives who came to the country in the 1800's, worked in the Gum fields, raised children in mud huts, paid the Maori (will have to look that up the official name) for every measure of gum pulled out of the ground. The guys who dug 12 foot deep drains in the Kaipara area. The guys who were put into camps during the War for being "Austrians?". Which part of our history has been denied and neglected when a blue eyed blond can call themselves a Maori literally 100+ years down the line from my immigrant relatives who built this country, along with many others?

Up until 1967, the only people in this country who could benefit from the Treaty issue were 50% Maori. I have no problem with that. On the other hand, given that "Maori" now have the equivalent wealth of their population percentage in this country, how is it that the Leaders (the F#t C#ts) can now say that all the millions of settlements they have received (many that most NZers would not know about) is not to be used for the benefit of their poorest and most needy. That is the taxpayers responsibility?

Customary title to the 12 mile limit, the ability to deny any business the right to develop anything, with all the mineral wealth that may entail? Where the hell are we non Maori people in this country that we have funded and built? Where were we when Chris Finlayson was going around the country to hui asking what the Maori wanted? This, in my mind, is short sighted suicide for the rest of New Zealand from the marine farmers, the recreational right to launch a boat without payment, the mining, the fishing etc. Is this what we want? Please think about it...

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11 years 9 months ago #345130 by kate
Replied by kate on topic How do I say this?
I wont delete this thread at this point but if it decends into name-calling and abuse then it will be deleted without any further warning....

Play nice
Kate

Web Goddess

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11 years 9 months ago #345133 by reggit
Replied by reggit on topic How do I say this?
"Under the new legislation the foreshore and seabed will be removed from Crown ownership and will become a common space with public access guaranteed.

Existing private titles will not be affected but there will not be any new ones.

Iwi will be able to seek customary title through negotiation with the Government or through the High Court, and to gain that title they will have to prove exclusive use and occupation since 1840.

Where the right to customary title can be proved, it will sit alongside the common area rights of public access, fishing, navigation and existing uses."

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10671697

Media have done a good job of coverage of both sides of this debate over the last few months - check out The Herald in particular. It's not exactly been sprung on anyone.

The Herald series also provided maps showing coastline and what 'ownership' it is currently in. My understanding from other sources is that there are around 12,000 private titles of coastline in NZ - not Maori land, but private ownership by individual landowners, who can, if they so wish, exclude the public from these areas of coastline/beach.

The granting of customary title would continue to allow public use of these areas.

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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11 years 9 months ago #345140 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic How do I say this?
tigger - can you still please look at the Coastal Coalition website as an alternative to what the NZ Herald has reported. I have read what they have reported also and basically, it is what is NOT being said that needs debate. In particular, read the submission by Michael Barnett of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and other submissions that were put forward. Self interest? No way in my opinion. I just don't see any reason to change what Labour did for the benefit of all New Zealanders whatever ethnicity.

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11 years 9 months ago #345143 by reggit
Replied by reggit on topic How do I say this?
I have already had a read of the Coastal Coalition site, Didi, and encourage others to have a look at it too. And then it would be good if they seek out a variety of other sites/sources to get a full 360 on this, as yes, it is an important issue.

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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11 years 9 months ago #345156 by Jack
Replied by Jack on topic How do I say this?
Gidday

DiDi I am 100% support what you have said. As I am in the habit of saying exactly what I think and why, I think I had better keep quiet here otherwise it just might be deleted.

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11 years 9 months ago #345160 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic How do I say this?
Having had a quick look, I think that some of the points raised are cause for concern, but other statements such as the following should rightfully belong in the domain of the "tinfoil hat" brigade:

Q. Why is the National government planning to abolish the Act?
[FONT=&quot]A. National would like to cement a long-term relationship with the Maori Party. The Maori Party wants the Act repealed. That’s why National will abolish the Act and effectively privatise the foreshore and seabed to Maori interests.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Sweeping statements like that do not foster a balanced debate, and are inflammatory scaremongering IMO.

Personally, I applauded Labour when they introduced the Foreshore and Seabed Act, but they also passed other laws such as:

- Legalised Prostitution
- The infamous anti-smacking legislation
- Various other "nanny-state" reforms that we would have been better without

Now we have National in power, and I agree, they are letting the Maori party have too much influence.

As the voters, we are caught between a rock and a hard place and there is no easy answer [:(!]
[/FONT]

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11 years 9 months ago #345636 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic How do I say this?
its late at night, and I probably shouldn't be posting, but put simply (in my view) not too long down the track every NZ'r is going to have the right to claim some sort of Maori Whakapapa.

My blue eyed, mouse brown/ginger/blond streaks daughter of Nga Puhi decent from paternal Grandma's side is one of them.... and her whakapapa contains many people, many cultures.

But her Maori whakapapa is part of her family history, and so far she and us haven't received any extra benefit from that family line than if she did not have Maori whakapapa in her lineage.

She is registered with Nga Puhi along with her Dad so they can remain in contact because we wanted to learn how the family came about because recent decendants of my MIL's ilk didn't want to admit to having certain bloodlines in their pommie family tree.

Probably the same as how some very vocal public identities don't want to admit to having europeans in their grandparents bloodlines either...

funny world this is....:rolleyes:

However ''you'' (in the very general sense) are going to be fighting another nationality completely for ownership of this beautiful country not so long in the future.

I would be more concerned about that really.....

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11 years 9 months ago #345642 by Simkin
Replied by Simkin on topic How do I say this?
DiDi - my thoughts, too. When the first treaty settlements came through there was a lot of talk about giving Maori (and it was meant for the whole people) the chance to get out of the poverty trap.

I haven't seen this happen. However, a lot of treaty lawyers have made a lot of bucks.

Abolishing the act and opening the door for more wrangling in the courts will surely secure the treaty lawyer's jobs for the foreseeable future.

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