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13 years 9 months ago #23037 by ronnie
Back to dial-up was created by ronnie
My internet wouldn't connect this morning and after 2 hours mucking around and speaking with less than helpful helpdesk staff, I finally got hold of someone who:

1. could speak english
2. knew exactly where to look for the problem
3. was most helpful
4. did not insist on going thru all this cr*p to try and rectify the issue (those of you who have had dealing with helpdesk staff will know what I mean here).

So, I am reduced to dial-up until a technician can come and fix the problem in the exchange this afternoon. We both have an inkling of what has caused this issue, which I shall share, should it be confirmed as that cause, later in the day.

At least this very helpful person had the nouse to offer to re-connect the dial up rather than leave me without internet access for the day so I can at least get some important stuff done before we go to town later this morning.

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13 years 9 months ago #329694 by Stu_R
Replied by Stu_R on topic Back to dial-up
Strange you should mention that sort of stuff ronnie
When setting up my parents new computer, i had to ring the help desk as it wasn't doing what it should do
well 9 different phone calls to them latter i finnaly got someone ( a lady ) who could speak better English, didnt stuff around with all the garbage, agreed totaly with what i thought was wrong, told me how to fix it, and it worked perfectly :)
I didn't need more Ram like the others had tried to tell me , i didnt need to do 99% of the things they wanted me to.
One person who knew what they were talking about and wasn't being a robott , was all it needed :)

5 retired Greyhounds ( Bridgette , Lilly, GoGo,Sam and now Lenny) 15 friendly sheep all of whom are named and come when you call them :) , 2 goats, Mollie and Eee Bee :
Olive trees , .. old bugger doing the best he can with no money or land :)

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13 years 9 months ago #329700 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Back to dial-up
I had a similar problem a couple of weeks ago and must say that all the phone calls I had to T....m to sort it out were most helpful taking a complete un-techo through the procedures to sort out my problems.

I had been offered a grade up on my mobile broadband from 1G to 4G at the same price, little knowing that my connection was cut off Friday night and the promised couriered new one didn't arrive for 4 days! So they helpfully reconnected Dial up, then I couldn't connect to that either until I rang back and did a few changes. So 4 phone calls and lots of help from everyone, in simple if oriental accents!

By the way the new mobile was XT, and guess what-we can't get it here, so had to unload it again and send it back and revert to my original which is way better than Dial up! Thank goodness I still had the soft ware to load it again.

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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13 years 9 months ago #329706 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up

Sue;316284 wrote: By the way the new mobile was XT, and guess what-we can't get it here, so had to unload it again and send it back and revert to my original which is way better than Dial up! Thank goodness I still had the soft ware to load it again.

That is a worry Sue. Telecom's old network is called CDMA (or T3G in marketing speak) and it will be shut down about the middle of 2012. So you will need to look for an alternative solution during the next couple of years.

I would suggest some sort of fixed wireless service if it is available in your area, or failing that, FarmSide satellite.

You are definitely not the first person I have heard of who could get Telecom's old network (CDMA), but not the new one (XT). They use quite different technologies, but in some cases, CDMA had advantages, particularly in fringe areas, even though it is nowhere near as fast as XT. Sad but true.

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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13 years 9 months ago #329732 by beedee
Replied by beedee on topic Back to dial-up
I am sooo glad someone knew what Sue was talking about!!!!

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13 years 9 months ago #329746 by ronnie
Replied by ronnie on topic Back to dial-up
Got home from a looooooong day out. Still not working, so ran Telecom again and quoted the case number given this morning. Silly woman told me there was a problem with me NOT being home this afternoon. But the folk this morning told me it was a fault at the exchange and it did not matter I would not be home.
Then the silly woman said the technician would be calling at the exchange at 7pm this evening to sort it.
Hung up on her and the phone rang. It was the technician. He started going on about having to make another appointment as I wasn't home when he called. But I was told I did not have to be home.
He tells me there was nothing wrong at the exchange but he would call in anyway and see what was happening.
he did a few things on the computer and hey presto - we are working again - thank goodness for that. You should see my inbox [:0][:0][:0]

Now the suspicious happenings of last night, with some person upgrading my broadband from our current 3gb to 10gb from midnight, is suspected as the culprit for my outage today. Not sure how that could be, but very suspect.

So I had best NOT be getting a bill for all this going on. Or I shall be sending them one back for wasting 2 hours of my time this morning.

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13 years 9 months ago #329748 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Back to dial-up
Thanks for that comment Grant-I must remember to look for something else! Farmside might be an alternative, even if it seemed way more expensive.
I would love to get ordinary Broadband, my daughter gets it and only lives about 1km away, but seems the exchange is full and they don't intend to enlarge it in the near future, -perhaps by 2012???

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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13 years 9 months ago #329754 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up

Sue;316348 wrote: Thanks for that comment Grant-I must remember to look for something else! Farmside might be an alternative, even if it seemed way more expensive.

Depending on exactly where you live around Levin, you may be able to get the fixed wireless service that I am using. My 2GB plan costs $70 per month with NetSpeed. Have a look at the attached file showing the coverage in your area.

Attached files [IMG]http://app.lifestyleblock.co.nz/images/converted_files/316354=5139-EXTEND Wanganui-Manawatu.jpg[/img]

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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13 years 9 months ago #329755 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic Back to dial-up
Sue - I wish everyone who is having problems in the rural areas would take the time to bombard the National Government with emails about their personal appalling service. They just don't get that there has been no money spent on upgrading exchanges and it needs to happen.

To hell with super ridiculous Broadband download (the proof is that people still buy on dollar value and will not switch if the price is off the planet) so get the rural exchanges (and urban from what I hear) upgraded and then start talking access for the population of NZ that lives outside Auckland and Wellington (and hopefully the other main cities). Hell you would think that no one runs a business outside the main centres unless they are Fonterra customers! Makes me so frustrated at the ignorance.

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13 years 9 months ago #329758 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up

DiDi;316355 wrote: Sue - I wish everyone who is having problems in the rural areas would take the time to bombard the National Government with emails about their personal appalling service. They just don't get that there has been no money spent on upgrading exchanges and it needs to happen.

Most people on here for some time, have probably seen all this, so don't bother reading any further. This post is largely for the benefit of newcomers to the forum.

Here is a link to the list of exchanges and cabinets that are due to be upgraded:

www.chorus.co.nz/f462,31519/May_2010_Cab...isation_Forecast.xls

Most of the work will be completed between now and Nov 2011, with a couple of exceptions on Waiheke Island, and somewhere in the Tasman district.

Put simply, if your exchange hasn't already been upgraded, and isn't in that list, then no upgrade is going to happen.

Telecom is only upgrading exchanges in towns with 500 people or more.

If you live outside the broadband coverage area of an exchange (as we do), you have 2 options:

1) Wait for the government's much-touted UFB (Ultra Fast Broadband) initiative. This wil bring fibre-optic cables to just about every school in the country, and maybe there will be some provision to cater for the surrounding communities, but the rollout schedule is 10 years [:(!]

The initial goal is to make fibre available to “priority users” such as businesses, schools and health services, plus green field developments and certain tranches of residential areas, within the first six years of operation, and the secondary goal is to make fibre available to 75% of the population within ten years.

For the purposes of this initiative, 75% of New Zealanders means the population of the country’s 25 largest cities and towns, down to the size of Oamaru.



2) Bite the bullet and get a wireless service.
Broadband coverage to some areas of the country is uneconomic to provide via fixed wiring, be it copper or fibre, and will remain so. Telecom, the Government, or any other provider are never going to upgrade existing exchanges beyond the list I linked to above. Copper is last century's technology; the future consists of fibre, or wireless. The sooner everybody accepts this reality, and looks for an alternative solution, the better.

Wireless solutions are out there now, and they no longer cost the earth, with plans starting from around $40 per month. For this amount, you won't get much speed or data, but if you are prepared to spend $50 per month, you will get 2GB, which is sufficient in our household where both of us use the internet constantly. In our case, we chose a faster plan which costs $70 per month for 2GB with a download speed 4x faster than the entry-level plans. For us, the extra speed is worth a $20 premium, but many others who are currently on dialup would be very happy with the $50 plan.

In summary:

- If you already have wired (ADSL) broadband, and your exchange is on the upgrade list; hang in there, faster broadband is coming, and for the most part, it will be less than 18 months away.

- If your exchange isn't on the upgrade list, and you currently have broadband; count yourself lucky, as there are plenty who don't. Most likely, your current broadband service is as good as it's going to get, unless fibre comes to your neighbourhood.

- If your exchange isn't on the upgrade list, and you are currently stuck on dialup; get over it, and look for something else! No amount of whinging to the government will change this fact.

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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13 years 9 months ago #329761 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Back to dial-up
Well from that map Grant, small as it is, I think we are just outside the area, being in the region of where Ohau is written right at the southern boundary!

So next question, on that link you posted about exchange upgrades-how do you fing out which applies to your area? There are 15 listed for Levin.

I think I know where there is a phone box thingy not far away from here-well chorus are always poking around in it so I suppose that is what it is! Is the sort of thing this list refers to? Do I stop and look for some letters or numbers on it-or is there another link to find out?

Didi we have already made some noises locally as some areas get broadband and some don't and it seems illogical that one side of a road gets it and the other doesn't!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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13 years 9 months ago #329762 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up

Sue;316361 wrote: Well from that map Grant, small as it is, I think we are just outside the area, being in the region of where Ohau is written right at the southern boundary!

If you are not quite in the intended coverage area, it doesn't mean for sure that you can't get the service.

- Is your property on a hilltop, or down in a valley?
- If you are up reasonably high, check if you can see the mast at Wharite from your house.
- If you can see the mast, chances are that you will get the service.

Sue;316361 wrote: So next question, on that link you posted about exchange upgrades-how do you fing out which applies to your area? There are 15 listed for Levin.

In the 4th column of the spreadsheet is an identifier. Sometimes these are marked on the side of the cabinet. If not, then next time you see a Chorus van poking around in the box near to you, explain why you want to know, and ask the guys if that cabinet is planned to have broadband equipment installed. If they don't know, then ask them to tell you the cabinet ID.

Sue;316361 wrote: ...it seems illogical that one side of a road gets it and the other doesn't!

Unfortunately, that's how it goes. At some point, the cable becomes too long for broadband to work properly, so they have to draw the line somewhere.

As you will see from the spreadsheet, most of the upgrades around Levin are scheduled to take place this year. But further down, there is mention of a new cabinet to be installed during Oct 2011 depending on demand. If you are lucky enough to be within about 2km of that cabinet, it could provide the solution for you.

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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13 years 9 months ago #329764 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up
Here for further reference are the towns and cities targetted for UFB:

Region Population % of population
Auckland 1,230,606 29.5%
Christchurch 360,768 8.7%
Wellington 360,627 8.7%
Hamilton Zone 155,262 3.7%
Napier and Hastings 118,404 2.9%
Dunedin 110,997 2.7%
Tauranga 108,882 2.6%
Palmerston North and Fielding 89,922 2.2%
New Plymouth and Hawera 60,057 1.5%
Kapiti and Levin 56,571 1.4%
Nelson 56,364 1.4%
Rotorua 53,766 1.3%
Whangarei 49,080 1.2%
Invercargill 46,773 1.1%
Wanganui 38,988 0.9%
Gisborne 32,529 0.8%
Cambridge and Te Awamutu 29,646 0.7%
Blenheim 28,527 0.7%
Timaru 26,886 0.6%
Taupo 21,291 0.5%
Masterton 19,494 0.5%
Whakatane 18,204 0.4%
Ashburton 16,836 0.4%
Tokoroa 13,530 0.3%
Oamaru 12,681 0.3%
===================
TOTAL 3,116,601 75.0%
===================

As you can see, there is very little hope of most LSB'ers being catered for, unless they happen to live on the fringes of one of those cities (probably within 2km or less of the city boundary).

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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13 years 9 months ago #329767 by Sue
Replied by Sue on topic Back to dial-up

Sometimes these are marked on the side of the cabinet. If not, then next time you see a Chorus van poking around in the box near to you, explain why you want to know, and ask the guys if that cabinet is planned to have broadband equipment installed

Thanks Grant, I'll look and see if there is anything on the cabinet tomorrow!

If you are up reasonably high, check if you can see the mast at Wharite from your house


Well we are on a ridge, but only about very slight one as compared to where Levin is on the flat.
No I don't think Wharite is in line of sight, I think we are too close in to the Tararuas and the foothills jut out between here and there!

I have a feeling that new cabinet is going to go on the east side of SH1 towards the coast where they have no broadband at all!

Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.

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13 years 9 months ago #329774 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Back to dial-up
I should clarify these comments a little more:

GrantK;316358 wrote: Put simply, if your exchange hasn't already been upgraded, and isn't in that list, then no upgrade is going to happen.

Telecom is only upgrading exchanges in towns with 500 people or more.
...
Telecom, the Government, or any other provider are never going to upgrade existing exchanges beyond the list I linked to above. Copper is last century's technology; the future consists of fibre, or wireless.

There is a little more to it than that:

- Some of the exchanges are very old, using NEAX telephone switches from the 80s.
- Eventually, these will fail, as new supplies of spare parts are almost impossible to obtain now.
- Telecom have reasonable stocks though, to last a few years yet.

The 5-10 year plan is to replace existing NEAX switches with new equipment based on Internet Protocols (in other words VoIP). This will ensure that your phone continues to operate much as it does now, except:

- Dial-up internet will no longer be supported.
- Equipment using Analog modems (e.g. Sky Decoders, St. John Lifelink, Monitored Alarms) will no longer be supported.

Obviously, the industry needs time to transition and replace those analog services, so it cannot happen yet. There are digital equivalents of some of the above devices, but they are not widespread enough yet, so a near-term shift to VoIP would be premature, however it is coming.

Whether the existing exchange buildings will be retained, or whether many suburbs will change to roadside cabinets remains to be seen. Certainly, the large areas of floor space at many exchanges will no longer be required, as the modern equipment is much smaller.

The few paragraphs above deal with phone services. Broadband is a different kettle of fish. Much of the equipment has already been shifted to roadside cabinets as part of the Fibre-to-the-Node (FTTN) rollout which finishes next year.

With regard to upgrades of broadband equipment, Telecom look at these according to unfulfilled demand. When there are enough customers wanting to connect, who cannot be catered for using existing equipment, some extra ports will be added to the exchange or roadside cabinet. However, there is no guarantee how long this will take, and I know of some cases where all the wire pairs in a phone cable were in use, and Telecom took more than 5 years to upgrade the cable [:0]

In other cases where all the broadband ports are allocated, it can take months or even a year or two for additional equipment to be installed.

Finally, there are the rural customers who currently only receive dialup broadband because they are too far from an exchange or roadside cabinet. The government recently announced a reform of the TSO which was intended to pay for services to "uneconomic" customers such as these. Approximately $70M per year was allocated to providing for these customers, and a significant proportion of it was paid by Vodafone and TelstraClear to Telecom, who were supposed to add their share and use the allocated funds for upgrading and maintaining rural exchanges. In practice it didn't happen, and Telecom used most of the money for other purposes. A bit like what happens with most of our road taxes... :( [B)] [xx(]

So, the plan now for rural customers is to provide a fund, which will also be levied upon each telco, according to their market share. However, the funds to be levied from now on will be collected by the government, and put into a pool of "contestable funding" amounting to $48M per year IIRC. Interested parties can tender for the funds on the basis of a rural broadband service they propose to provide for XYZ region of customers.

One of the main lobbyists responsible for instigation of this plan is Vodafone, who believe they can service rural customers more efficiently via their mobile phone network, rather than over aging copper wires buried in the ground. Vodafone will tender for selected areas of the country, and if they are successful, we will probably see some additional cellular towers constructed. No doubt Telecom will still be left with the most hard-to-reach customers, but hopefully a Satellite broadband provider such as FarmSide will step up to the plate and tender to provide service to customers in some regions.

So there you have it people: Wireless is coming whether you like it or not!

The old copper wires in the ground will still be there, but in the remotest areas, they will just provide phone service, as they were originally designed to do, and broadband will be provided via wireless.

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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