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14 years 8 months ago #66987 by beedee
Replied by beedee on topic Hidden in the number
Ohhh wot heavy reading to go with breakfast.. I think all of you have very good ideas and gripes.....one that hasnt been mentioned is that its the lower socio person doing the secondary income and paying high tax.. noone every remarks on that in keeping the lower , LOWER..
I have gone from earning above the median/average income to that less than the benefit.. IF I want to try and add to it, by a secondary job, I get stung by very high tax.. why....wot is it meant to stop... I could understand tostop the greedy getting greedier, but I dont see the top 10 incomes wanting or needing to have a second job
I can only do certain jobs, and when my ability allows... and like others cant get any benefits like the sickness, because Ive been good and squirrelled away a few funds, so that IF I do make it to 65 I wont be a burden on the kids by not being able to pay the rates etc.. and the way they are rising I had sure better be dead and sprinkled in the national park by 67..
I work with women who are doing 16 hr duties 4-5 days week some do 12 days nonstop, all to keep their families together, and cant afford a car so walk to work,etc and on that magical minimum wage.. Suzanne, I,agree its tuff down the bottom of the heap... and that heap seems to be getting bigger:(

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14 years 8 months ago #67000 by reggit
Replied by reggit on topic Hidden in the number

quote:Currently, NZ Super is $277.06 per week for a Single Person living alone, or $213.12 for a Married Person i.e. $426.24 per couple.

This is as close to a minimum living wage as you would want to get IMO.

Okay, so then the living wage (amount needed to live off one 40 hour week job WITHOUT benefits added on) would need to be these figures PLUS accomodation costs (rental or mortgage) PLUS costs to raise a family. Would the minimum wage cover this ($440 a week before tax per person?) considering that those who are not at the end of their working life can't be expected to have accumulated a car that will 'see them out', need to travel to work, educate their kids, etc etc etc. Short answer is no.

Beedee, can you explain to me the secondary wage thing, I assumed that you were taxed at a higher rate for your second job by the employer but at the end of the tax year it all evens out with a refund if you have had a combined income of less than the tax rate concerned? Is that right?

Anyone who can get this book from their local library, I can thoroughly recommend it and wish someone would do a similar thing in NZ: "Hard Work: Living in Low Pay Britain" by Polly Toynbee. This journalist worked in a succession of low wage jobs (ie minimum wage) in tne UK to find out about conditions and whether you could actually live on the minimum wage without being so excluded from society that you essential become locked out of it.

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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14 years 8 months ago #67019 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Hidden in the number
We saw an article about the "brain drain" from NZ of the numbers coming across the ditch permanently.
From the ones we know, they used Australia as their springboard into Europe and America, and left NZ because of the 1. Weather, 2. They felt they had outgrown NZ and wanted to see a bit more, 3. They wanted to travel, set themselves up financially back home by working very hard before having kids, and then returning. Those still see NZ as a good place to raise a young family and still call it "home".

I do not know any expats that left NZ simply because the money was better as a permanent move.

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14 years 8 months ago #67024 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Hidden in the number
Something to add to Grant's post and experience if I may, and that is through sheer hard work, working at jobs that no one else wanted to do, making do and going without, putting off having kids until I was in my 30's and Hubby nearly 40 and then we only had 1, working at more than one job at once, we have done ok for ourselves too and send our Girl to a good school to hopefully do better than her parents did. [:I]

I don't see it as luck though, luck is for winning powerball or lotto.

My SOH was classed as stupid at school and left when he was 14 without any qualifications or school grades. He is dyslexic and taught himself how to read properly when he was in his 20's.

He started working for a roof tiler and eventually when he needed to retire, Hubby took on his contracts and work. He then left to travel through Europe and did security work (inc. a stint at a brothel where he also became their maintenance man;)).

He was then driving 3 trailer trucks carting fuel and then cattle in West. Australia and then he went on to drive harvesters for a farmer over there.

He has made good money and lost it (crop frosts, property settlements etc), and we started over again together 11 years ago to have what we have today.
He has just made enquiries in NZ about employment driving a truck with a former Aussie employer and it sounds promising.

It is so frustrating for him to see his adult nieces and nephews not employed (and who have a better education) because they choose to follow in their mother's footsteps and not work and not stay in a job "because they don't like it/the boss/it interferes with their social life".

I know there are exceptions to every rule, but sometimes its a case of getting back to proper basics and just working hard, long and at something One may not actually like and putting money aside in the early days for a deposit and knowing its impossible to "have it all".

Lecture over....

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14 years 8 months ago #67026 by beedee
Replied by beedee on topic Hidden in the number
I know nuffinnk about rebates at the end of the year.. as I dont understand it. and so took the IRD at their word that 83c was my rebate.. I really got hammered last year as I left and the gratuity and 8 wks a/l etc added up to a massive amount all taxed at a very high rate, over 40c.. this year will earn less than the tax paid... all I know is my secondary job of $75 per job means I get about $40.. and that isnt very often:D:(
maybe one of the others can explain.. I just know I get in the car and go to work and a little brown envelope lets me know it wants the effort the following week.. and the bankbalance may allow me to pay it

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14 years 8 months ago #67027 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Hidden in the number

quote:Originally posted by swaggie

Lecture over....

That is an excellent post Swaggie :)

Thanks for sharing some of your life experiences too, it is inspiring to read how someone such as your Hubbie has fought against the odds to get to where he is today :)

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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14 years 8 months ago #67033 by GrantK
Replied by GrantK on topic Hidden in the number

quote:Originally posted by beedee

I know nuffinnk about rebates at the end of the year.. as I dont understand it. and so took the IRD at their word that 83c was my rebate..

What Tigger says above is correct:

1) Your income from all sources is added up at the end of the year
2) The tax you have paid to IRD via deductions from your wages at the various employers is added up
3) You either get a bill for extra tax to pay, or a refund if you have paid too much

It's an easy calculation to check yourself if you have access to the tax tables. If in doubt, I would suggest getting an accountant to check it for you. They will request a Personal Tax Summary from IRD and can then make sure you are getting any deductions you are entitled to.

quote:Originally posted by beedee

all I know is my secondary job of $75 per job means I get about $40..

If your secondary job pushes you over $60k per year (probably unlikely) you would expect to pay 39% tax on this secondary job. Which would mean you received $45.75 in the hand.

If your total income from the two jobs is less than $60k, you should be paying 33% tax on this secondary job. Which would mean you received $50.25 in the hand.

And if your total income from the two jobs is less than $38k, you should be paying 19.5% tax on this secondary job. Which would mean you received $60.37 in the hand.

One of those situations should apply unless:

1) Your employer is taking out Kiwisaver deductions from your secondary income

2) Any benefit you may be receiving is being abated by the secondary income

If neither of those applies, you should ask your employer to justify the deductions they are making from your wages. I am just wondering if you are being hit by the "No Declaration" regime:

"Using no-declaration tax rates

Employers' responsibilities
As an employer, you are legally required to use a no-declaration rate when an employee or person receiving salary, wages or withholding payments fails to complete a Tax code declaration (IR330)."


Something definitely sounds screwy to me if you are getting $30 deducted from a $75 wage. That amounts to 40% which is even higher than the highest tax rate of 39% applicable to people earning over $60k per year. Hmmmm.... not good [xx(]

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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14 years 8 months ago #67040 by reggit
Replied by reggit on topic Hidden in the number
To follow on from Grant's post:

"Tax rate for every $1 of taxable income
(excluding ACC earners' levy)

up to $38,000
19.5 cents

$38,001 to $60,000 inclusive
33 cents

$60,001 and over
39 cents

No declaration
45 cents

I keep encountering this weird thing whereby some folk think that when they hit one of these income thresholds their entire income is taxed at the higher rate [:0]. This is not the case. It is only the amount over the threshold.

If you are in a situation like yours Beedee, I would be checking my tax and not just relying on the employers/IRD [:I] - have a look at

www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/end-year/pts/

They do recommend that anyone with a second job go through this double checking process.

Make sure the codes that you have given your employers are correct also - they should be on your pay slips...?

Swaggie, we all have stories about people who milk the system, my sympathy is what is being referred to nowadays as the 'working poor' - those who are making the effort/working long hours/working more than one job and still can't make a living wage out of it. Unfortunately the ones who do milk the system are the ones held up as bad examples who somehow taint the efforts of all those who are struggling which is really unfair.

As far as training goes/businesses - for every person who makes it there are probably dozens who don't. Not everyone has the brainpower or ability to drag themselves up from their bootstraps, but those people can still do a full days work, usually in the jobs that are essential to society, even if they are ones that society considers lowly - does that mean that they should not be able to earn enough to live with dignity and take part in the community like everyone else?

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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14 years 8 months ago #67070 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Hidden in the number

quote:Originally posted by GrantK

quote:Originally posted by swaggie

Lecture over....

That is an excellent post Swaggie :)

Thanks for sharing some of your life experiences too, it is inspiring to read how someone such as your Hubbie has fought against the odds to get to where he is today :)

Many thanks Grant, his theory is if he can do it, so can others who are (sometimes) better off than he was at the time.

One of our other mates works at Sydney airport on rotating shift "on the ground", he has 5 kids, and he spent a period of his time doing the garbage round (when it wasn't mechanical), then off to deliver sales leaflets for letterboxes once the older kids had folded them at home, and then off to the airport for the afternoon shift. He only dropped the first two jobs when the mortgage was paid off, and when they built their extension, he picked up more o/t at work to pay that off as well.

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14 years 8 months ago #67082 by sod
Replied by sod on topic Hidden in the number
My wife and I are better educated than our parents thanks to them so our kids are better educated than us thanks to us and that is how it should be.We did the more than one job each when we got married in 1970 bought house paid it off within 7 years had three kids went farming, contracting long hours retired to LSB and payed off, as kids all left home we hope as 26yrs to 30yrs old. 2 kids went to varsity 1 done a trade.Just work to earn enough to live now. We have been very blessed and worked hard early Some get breaks some make breaks some dont get them at all.Those that work or try their best should be better looked after than those that dont by the govt.

Having time is a measure of enthusiasm:rolleyes:

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14 years 8 months ago #67094 by beedee
Replied by beedee on topic Hidden in the number
Thanks for that web site Tigger..I see I should have been notifying them years ago...
Grant, I keep no documentation... well I do but its in the heap, so I havent a clue how much I earn since they stopped sending out how much one had earned, some years ago.. one of my biggest fears and I guess the depts is if they decided to do a check on me... it would mean spade and shovel and Id proably react by throwing the duvet over my head and handing them the checkless checkbook cos I cant find the new one... same as i cant sell this place, the cat was shut in the spare room for 2 days many years ago and he very cleanly used the legal box, so all my papers regarding ownership/mortgage etc got slightly contaminated....[:0][B)] yes i know I can go get more [:o)] His attitdue to the whole caboodle seemed appropriate esp as i was still getting over a very very late fee from the lawyers that they stuck on a year later,after buying this place.. despite me telling them to have the final account fully up todate so I cold spend anything left over... which I did.. I spat the dummy and so they halved it..
as for an accountant, I hardly know how old I am, and my vague-ness on matters that matter would annoy them sooo much that I dare not see one,not only am I a clutter bug, but i collect bank accounts and forget I have them.. have done that all my life ever since I played monopoly and won the game as Id stuck a $100 bill under the board so could buy a utility... I think Ronnie has the same problem but hers works out well in real life or for Bill's life... I do remember that I joined kiwisaver, to get the free $2,000.
I promise to check my pay slips from now on[:I][^]
Grant I wont hit $20k ... well I dont think so..

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