Horsey people help pls

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13 years 3 months ago #263256 by LittleLSB
Replied by LittleLSB on topic Horsey people help pls
Monkeydo just jump on in there - you'll only be walking round a paddock to start with so fitness isn't an issue. :)

I've found riding has contributed to my fitness and strength - I really noticed a difference when we did the full week.

Can you find a friend to go with? We've found that its way more fun and we motivate each other too. At the school we go to its also cheaper when we have a lesson together rather than a 1 to 1.

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13 years 3 months ago #263270 by NZ Appaloosas
Monkeydo, where are you located? There could well be something in your area that you're not aware of yet, where you can get lessons...

I'm not sure I'd recommend a running martingale to someone who's never used any martingale. IMO, a standing martingale, fitted properly, is less subject to accidental misuse.

Diane


Featuring Wap Spotted, sire of the first Wap Spot 2 grandget in Southern Hemisphere and New Zealand

On the first day God created horses. On the second day He spotted the best ones.

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13 years 3 months ago #263276 by GloPony
Replied by GloPony on topic Horsey people help pls
swaggie, you'll find EVERYONE is an expert when it comes to horses! [;)] :D

You'll get conflicting advice no matter which way you turn so I would suggest just going through a process of elimination first.

1. Get his teeth done by a professional horse dentist (not a vet).
2. Get a professional saddle fitter out to check the fit of your saddle & show you where it should be positioned.
3. Get a good instructor for a lesson or two. A good instructor teaches ALL levels of horse & rider.

Consider all of this a bit like a WOF on your car. You want to make sure all is in order before you trust it with your life & the same goes for your horse. It might all seem like a bit of a financial outlay at first but it's a darn sight cheaper than the resulting medical bills if you've got things wrong! [;)]

It sounds like you have the bridle pretty well sorted. What sort of bit have you got? If it's a single jointed bit, you might want to try a double jointed or a mullen mouth (no joint) to see what he's most comfortable with. Your dentist should be able to help with advice on this based on your horse's mouth shape.

I don't agree with using a drop nose band (flash strap on a hanovarian noseband) to tie a horse's mouth shut. All it does is increases the nutcracker action of the bit making it extremely painful for the horse. If he's opening his mouth & playing with the bit, he's either uncomfortable or confused. My opinion on martingales is the same. There should be no need to force the horse's head down. These are all gadgets designed & used by ignorant people as quick fixes rather than actually addressing the problem.

Quote: I got on and we walked around ok and J seemed quite comfy with his head low on a long rein.
After a few turns of the paddock in walk I decided to try for another nice trot which I got.
We went around again, but this time his head was up (his choice) his ears pricked and when I asked him for a walk, the ears went further back, he threw his head up further and sort of danced low on the spot.


For his head to go up like that & ears back, he's hollowing his back which could be to avoid an uncomfortable saddle or he could be trying to avoid pain in his mouth. It could even be the way your weight is positioned in the saddle or it could be that you didn't release the rein fast enough when you asked him to slow down.

It's really the blind leading the blind here without actually seeing you & the horse in action together.

Yes drifter, that's what I do for a job. I mostly work with horses (behavioural work, breaking in, etc) but I also work with people & teach them to ride. [:I] None of my pupils aspire to be Olympic riders either (well...maybe one...), they just want to be safe, have fun & enjoy their horses.

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13 years 3 months ago #263305 by terralee
Replied by terralee on topic Horsey people help pls
You are right in there will be a lot of *experts* glopony but everyone is only trying to help and offer swaggie some sort of info that may be of help ... like everything ...take what works for you from any advice :)
I totally agree with your suggestions but would put the instructor on topof the list as could well rule out the need for the others[^]
BTW I am neither ignorant or after a quick fix in using a martingale on Mo:( and when fitted correctly they are of great help in training a horse that is constantly throwing her head up ... it does NOT force the head down and neither do I want it to but it does create resistence when she tries to raise her head too high .. I shall be taking it off her again once she has gotten out of her habit ... I did check out teeth, back,bit etc before putting it back on her on someones suggestion and it worked a treat!
Cheers

Leonie & Zoo!!! :silly: :woohoo:

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13 years 3 months ago #263321 by sundaysbest
Replied by sundaysbest on topic Horsey people help pls
Getting some lessons really helped me and my lad... definately worth it mate!! DO IT! :)
Sundays

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13 years 3 months ago #263337 by NZ Appaloosas
Martingales, be they standing or running, are only quick fixes if used outside of certain arenas (I consider use of a running martingale in high level show jumping to be a 'proper' arena for use), if there's never any movement towards getting past the martingale. I found a standing martingale quite a necessary tool in working my ex-racing standy mare to even understand that going forward did not mean head up--when I first got her, any forward motion other than being lead brought her head right to where a check rein would have placed it, and the martingale helped break her of unconscious habit of that position.

Fact: Swaggie has a horse that is currently tossing its head up when asked to move out of a walk.
Fact: Said tossing can be caused by a problem with teeth, saddle or just sheer "Woo Hoo"
Fact: Swaggie is returning to riding after some absence.
Fact: Swaggie, when going out riding, is accompanied by a young girl who is trying to build/rebuild confidence around/riding horses.
Fact: Said young girl loses her confidence when Swaggie's horse starts to "act up".

Solution: Rule out reasons for acting up, and put something in place that can help Swaggie ride with her daughter without her daughter becoming fearful. This then allows Swaggie to work on horse and his responses, and in time, remove "gadget". Seems more than reasonable to me...

Diane


Featuring Wap Spotted, sire of the first Wap Spot 2 grandget in Southern Hemisphere and New Zealand

On the first day God created horses. On the second day He spotted the best ones.

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13 years 3 months ago #263367 by terralee
Replied by terralee on topic Horsey people help pls
Totally agree appynz and still reckon swaggies best option is from a *real* instructor who can actually see anything that may be causing any problems and once sorted give swaggie and E something to really concentrate on and go forward with so they can both enjoy their horses:)
I shall refrain from trying to give any ideas or solutions or thoughts that I have used in similar situations in the future ... far be it from me to try to help:(
Cheers and wish you all the best swaggie and E

Leonie & Zoo!!! :silly: :woohoo:

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13 years 3 months ago #263372 by NZ Appaloosas
I still wanna know why you think a running martingale is a better choice than a standing tho', for a beginner user--learning how others think about various tools helps me, especially when those tools are ones I've not used much...

Diane


Featuring Wap Spotted, sire of the first Wap Spot 2 grandget in Southern Hemisphere and New Zealand

On the first day God created horses. On the second day He spotted the best ones.

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13 years 3 months ago #263374 by sundaysbest
Replied by sundaysbest on topic Horsey people help pls
I don't think Martingales should be used at all in a pleasure hack situation - :)
What about the local PC instructor or someone reliable and respected locally for some advice and lessons... that would be a great place to start!
Sundays

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13 years 3 months ago #263377 by NZ Appaloosas

sundaysbest;242748 wrote: I don't think Martingales should be used at all in a pleasure hack situation - :)


As a normal, every day, never to be removed from the gear set-up, item, I agree on that. However, as a tool to managing a situation, I disagree. Of course, this is based on ruling out any mouth/back pain, and a pre-ride lunge not fixing things, and the behaviour continuining.

Diane


Featuring Wap Spotted, sire of the first Wap Spot 2 grandget in Southern Hemisphere and New Zealand

On the first day God created horses. On the second day He spotted the best ones.

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13 years 3 months ago #263399 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Horsey people help pls
hey many thanks everyone....

S came out today, he did the hooves first as he does. J hasn't been out of shoes for very long as S came across the nail marks. He does have a major crack in one hoof however it will take time to grow out and I am reassured that J is ok still to ride through it.

S checked out the saddle without saddle clothes. the new saddle varies in firmness bringing our hands down the inside of it, firm, loose and firm again.
S thinks the saddle cloths might be ok to take up that difference, but he thought lunging a good workout to get a sweat up and then look for what marks are under the saddle a good indication of what is happening there. I might yet have to get one professionally fitted.

We are all agreed that I have had the saddle too far forward, the ideal place on J is about a hands width back from behind the front leg to the girth. S said a lot of NZer's ride too far forward with their saddles. Must be some aussies too![;)]

He also advises that I try a product called alleviate C, toxin binders and premium NZ horse minerals. As our horses are pasture based, he suggested a little oaten chaff to give the forenamed in, our builder suggested making sure we get the ''cool'' mix of oaten chaff rather than a fast mix...

Next move is the dentist for both horses, and I will seek her advise re the bit etc.
Our builders wife has offered to bring her saddles around to show me the differences and bring some articles on the issue. As I am heading back to Aussie on Monday night, and working Sunday, I have had to put it back a week but willing to hear all opinions.

I roughly know of one riding instructor but the feedback hasn't been positive. I believe the local pony club is excellent, but heck I can make a d*ck of myself at home without the audience all the same.[;)][;)][;)]

Glopony are you still in the franklin area?

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13 years 3 months ago #263675 by GloPony
Replied by GloPony on topic Horsey people help pls
[:0] No! I certainly wasn't meaning to put anyone off giving advice! I was merely referring to the comment swaggie made about the builder blokes not agreeing on where the saddle should be positioned & also the fact that she'll get conflicting advice from everywhere & will need to filter through to find what works best. I was also pointing out that the best way to avoid the conflict is to find trained professionals in each of the areas she needs; dentistry, saddle fitter, etc. I have plenty of experience with horses but would never consider giving advice on things like that.

It's all very well us trying to be helpful but when we can't see the horse & rider in action & only have the rider's interpretation of what's happening, to go on, well...it makes it near impossible to be sure you're advising the right thing.

As for my martingale comments, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. [;)] My opinion will always be that no gadget is a substitute for schooling. If you need to correct the head position (eg; SB's that are used to overchecks) you need to get the whole horse balanced which also requires a balanced rider. There are lots of exercises that can be done both on & off the horse to address this & you don't need to be an Olympic rider to achieve it. It certainly helps however if you have someone experienced on the ground who can see what's happening & make corrections in "real time" & of course, you have to work at it, it's not an instant fix.

I'm not disagreeing that martingales work but they do so by giving the horse no option & are therefore forcing the horse into it. A horse that is working with it's head up or 'needs' a martingale to keep it's head down is working hollow & not using it's back muscles. That's when you end up with sore horses. Surely it's better to work & ride the horse in a manner that it doesn't need a martingale?

swaggie, I'm now up north but do still have Auckland clients. Kieron Lynch is out your way & is very good also.

Lungeing & looking at saddle marks is a good start but where those sweat marks will be will no doubt change with a rider's weight in the saddle. You might also want to check after you've ridden & see if there is any difference. It's the dry patches you want to look out for.

terralee - the reason I don't put the instructor first is that it's very difficult for an instructor to tell if the horse has pain issues unless they're VERY obvious. As an instructor, I prefer to know that the horse is completely sound before I start trying to correct it's way of going.

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13 years 3 months ago #263803 by devan
Replied by devan on topic Horsey people help pls
Speaking of saddles fitting or not, i clipped bounce on the weekend and found white hair pressure marks down 1 side of his spine (couldn't see them until he was clipped which is kinda weird), now how do i know if these are old or if they have been caused by my saddle? He does carry his tail to one side and has done since i've had him, the previous owners said that they had his back completely checked and i believe that they would have. I always use a thick sheepskin back protector thingy and cant say i've notices any issues but then i started thinking about the bucking when cantering thing and wondered? The saddle seems to fit fine but how would i know if its old damage or recent?

The trouble with some women is that they get all excited about nothing,and then they marry him.

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13 years 3 months ago #263823 by GloPony
Replied by GloPony on topic Horsey people help pls
The only way you'll really know devan is to get his back looked at again.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said to me, "oh no, his back can't be out 'cause it was looked at xxx weeks/months ago...", I'd be very rich! :D

Horses hoon around in the paddock & can hurt themselves with a simple slip in the paddock. Just 'cause they're fine when you get them looked at, doesn't mean they'll still be fine even only one day later.

I had my youngster's neck & back looked at after last winter & before I started riding him. I had a suspicion his neck was out (which it was) but I hadn't been aware of how tight his hamstrings were & this was apparently due to the very wet winter. The chiro said she'd had heaps of horses with similar issues just from sliding around in all that mud which was sucking on their legs & causing strains.

If he's holding his tail to one side & bucking in canter transitions, I'd put money on him being out somewhere. Did you clip him last year? Did you notice the marks then? When was his saddle last repacked / refitted? Horses change shape with work & so do saddles so saddle fit should probably be checked fairly regularly. The saddle that fitted two months ago, may not fit now.

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13 years 3 months ago #263866 by oskatd
Replied by oskatd on topic Horsey people help pls
I'd agree 100%, I had bucking in canter transitions and once the chiro fixed his back and the horse was schooled well enough and strong enough to do the work the bucking has all but stopped. It was never bad but I think it was just a sign that his muscles couldn't work properly to engage his hind legs. Anyhoo all good now. Oh and his saddle is fitted to him once a year also. He also has bowen regularly as tends to get tight in his hamstrings, and choppy in his paces - a sure sign he needs some attention. Hope you're feeling rich!

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