A sort-of hypothetical question about immigration.

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13 years 3 months ago #17245 by Isla
So I have this friend, right, who has a neighbour who has a sister who has a friend, so we'll call the protagonist Jane, i.e. the friend of the sister of the neighbour of my friend. Are you with me so far?

Jane has a guest who is here on what can only be presumed to be an illegal basis. The guest, who we'll call Marco, just for argument's sake, was originally in the country on a student visa which he allowed to lapse, after which it appears he probably worked illegally to earn enough to live on, and spent some months "couch surfing" in the flats of long-suffering friends and acquaintances.

Jane's uncle, who has business connections with Marco's mother (who probably spoiled him rotten all his short life, from Jane's report of his attitude to entitlement in all things) asked Jane if she would mind Marco coming to stay for a few weeks while he (uncle) attempted to sort out with the home country's NZ Embassy, Marco's visa status.

Jane, being a generous soul, said yes, it seeming not to be a great imposition, particularly if Marco was willing to help out a bit around the place.

Now, the question I have, which I've been asked via the sister, neighbour and friend, is what's likely to be the outcome of all this? Will Jane's uncle be able to sort it out from Marco's home country end, or does Marco himself need to be taking action, or will that result in him being deported (which he probably richly deserves) when he brings attention to himself and his status? Can this be sorted out, bearing in mind the long-ago lapsed student visa?

The point of being able to leave the country under legal status is his future ability to return or go to other like countries.

Any help will be gratefully relayed to Jane.

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13 years 3 months ago #256801 by sod
I think he needs to be dobbed(SP) in and let him face up to the big bad world, why let it happen to others or if uncle wants to help him let him have him. Don't see how it can be sorted out now as he has done it.

Having time is a measure of enthusiasm:rolleyes:

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13 years 3 months ago #256802 by ronnie

Isla;235598 wrote:

The point of being able to leave the country under legal status is his future ability to return or go to other like countries.

Any help will be gratefully relayed to Jane.


Not sure of any of the legalities here, but I would say he should have thought about all this before he let his original visa lapse. I would suggest he holds his hands up, go to immigration, plead whatever and hope they are lenient with him.
Otherwise, he may end up on that TV programme where immigration go and physically remove him for deportation[:0] That would certainly dent his chances of gaining access to any other country in the future.

Sorry, not much help was I.

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13 years 3 months ago #256803 by reggit
Its catch-22, Marco can only have a student visa if he is a bona fide student...but no education provider will have enrolled him without a student visa...so don't see how he can get another one or even the original one extended...?

Since he's been here illegally and working, I can't imagine immigration will look too favourably on him.

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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13 years 3 months ago #256809 by hilldweller
You could always put the hypothetical question to:
- Immigration
- Citizens Advice Bureau
- Marco's home country's embassy in NZ, if there is one.

I think it's likely that Jan-Ronnie is right though.

Does Marco wish to continue studying here or simply to leave the country without a black mark against his name?

hilldweller

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13 years 3 months ago #256810 by Kiwi303
He's here and outside any visa terms, if he catches Immigrations attention he's likely to find himself on a plane cuffed to the seat until it's outside NZ airspace. He's best off heading to the airport, fly home and sort everything out from home and come in legally.

MOST countries worldwide subscribe to an international database of deportees, any name on that database is automatically barred entry to any country subscribed... NZ is one of those countries, so a involuntary deportation means he will have VERY limited travel choices in the future. If he flys home, he won't get the black mark against his name on the database.

All up, it's best if you advise Jane to call the uncle and ask for an airline ticket in Marco's name, and she drops him off at the airport. Once he's home then there will be less complications to deal with, such as being a CURRENT illegal overstayer.

You Live and Learn, or you don't Live Long -anon

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13 years 3 months ago #256815 by max2
I am a bit lost with that part Isla, but let me pose another thought to you....

In the short time I have been here as an aussie cit married to a returning Kiwi, I have come across 2 situations where others who have been visiting Australia are staying with folk who they don't know in auckland, just so they can re-enter aussie after a short period of time in NZ.

Neither had anything to offer the families they bunked with in NZ, apart from their company, and I for one are a tad over this mentality of hosting types in the short term who are trying to get elsewhere but cannot pay their way in their host country (NZ).

1 passed the official test, the other was organised to arrive with family arranged accomodation but however at the last minute the son of the Kiwi family found out said arrival was sacked from his job for stealing and thus why he lost his employer sponsorship..... so he was personally heading to Kiwi land for a period of time so he could re-enter aussie again as a visitor on whatever visa is appropriate.

I really don't think this is fair, either to NZ families or eventually Aust where most of these types arrive and stay.

If they cannot support themselves legally in any country, then off they should trot back to the home land and start again like the rest of the fair dink immigrants have to....

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13 years 3 months ago #256816 by Prim
I heard something on the radio today; I thought it interesting (and it only VERY loosely is relevant to your situation, Isla).

80% of the illegal immigrants in this country who are prosecuted for overstaying are Samoan; but only 20% of the illegal overstayers are Samoan. Whoa. Interesting.

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13 years 3 months ago #256817 by Isla
Ah.

Yes Marco just wants to leave without a black mark.

How does he get out of the country under his illegal current status, without being detected and reprimanded with the black mark? Are we just damned pleased, as citizens, to see him leave and therefore simply wave him off to his own stupidly disorganised existence?

I just bet he's the sort of guy who doesn't wash his own socks and leaves the toilet seat up!

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13 years 3 months ago #256819 by Hestia
he could leave the country if he is lucky and no one spots that he is an over stayer and then he can come back and do it legally.
if they spot him he has to stay away for some time.
next time he shows up he needs to have money and return ticket.

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13 years 3 months ago #256820 by Kiwi303
I knew a Belgish (Belgier?, Belguimese?) student in a similar situtation to Marco, finished the academic year at Waikato Uni and his visa expired with the academic year + a month to pack and leave. He had cash in the bank so took off in his van to tour the place until his cash ran out and he had to leave. He ended up 5 months over his student visa period before he ran out of cash and had to go book a seat on the plane home.

2 years later he was back over here doing another tour, this time on a tourist visa. So leaving on your own terms as an overstayer doesn't appear to block you from returning legally in the future :D

You Live and Learn, or you don't Live Long -anon

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13 years 3 months ago #256821 by max2

Isla;235618 wrote: Ah.

Yes Marco just wants to leave without a black mark.

How does he get out of the country under his illegal current status, without being detected and reprimanded with the black mark? Are we just damned pleased, as citizens, to see him leave and therefore simply wave him off to his own stupidly disorganised existence?

I just bet he's the sort of guy who doesn't wash his own socks and leaves the toilet seat up!


does he have something to offer to NZ apart from normal male tendancies? If not, then off he trots to face the music he has made for himself, however much he might have tried to support himself....

Lots are out there Isla who would love the life and systems that NZ has to offer, where is the line drawn though?

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13 years 3 months ago #256823 by Isla
He does not wish, thankfully, to remain in or return to this country. He does want to be able to enter other countries.

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13 years 3 months ago #256825 by max2
Lots of cheap airfares now, emirates just had a lovely special to aussie recently, as did Air NZ.

the world really is an apple for the taking, or an alternative cost to supplying groceries, household cleaning, and hostess duties.... what price is Jane's sanity????

surely something suitable is there for less????

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13 years 3 months ago #256826 by Kiwi303
His best bet in that case is to just trot down to the airport and get a seat home.

Ps... HOME, in this case means HOME... seeking to enter other countries as a visitor will get your passport scrutinised, just changing planes with a ticket with a destination matching the nationality of the passport while staying in the international lounge is less risky.

No point leaving NZ safely to be turned back at the Aussie border just cause he wanted to have a look round there and the aussie border guys noticed a discrepancy between his visa expiry and his leaving NZ.

Straight home, express route.

You Live and Learn, or you don't Live Long -anon

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