Internet/electric fence problem

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16 years 1 month ago #12288 by Louimay
I am currently sitting here hoping that I will get a chance to finish this message before I am kicked offline[:(!]

So just quickly.....We have someones fence interferring with our phone line and my internet connection is having major problems because of it. I can't get any better than 31.5Kbps and I only get that if I am lucky. Also I keep getting tossed off. We have a nasty click...click...click... sound on our phone so it has to be an electric fence somewhere.

I turned ours off at the wall (electric fence) and the clicking is still on the line so it has to be someone else.

My questions are....how do I find out whose it is? How can someone else's fence affect our line so badly? How far away could it actually be, like could it be the neighbour 6 properties down or is it more likely the one next door? How does a short affect our phone line, like what actually causes the interference? and finally are Telecom likely to come and help me find the cause if I ring them bearing in mind we are with Xnet for our internet and our phone calls?

Gee it is annoying!!

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16 years 1 month ago #190525 by GrantK

Louimay;162863 wrote: I can't get any better than 31.5Kbps and I only get that if I am lucky.

Telecom are only required to provide 14.4kbps as a minimum speed for 95% of phone lines, with the other 5% being required to provide 9.6kbps.

Unless you are getting less than either of those speeds, Telecom will not want to know, regardless of who your ISP is.

Louimay;162863 wrote: Also I keep getting tossed off. We have a nasty click...click...click... sound on our phone so it has to be an electric fence somewhere.

You may be able to figure out whose electric fence is at fault by walking along the roadside near your house and looking for obvious shorts. Generally this sort of interference will happen when there is a short from the electric fence onto a normal fence wire which then distributes the current into the ground at each post where it touches a staple.

If you can remove the short, you may reduce (but not necessarily eliminate) the interference.

Louimay;162863 wrote: How far away could it actually be, like could it be the neighbour 6 properties down or is it more likely the one next door?

It could be anyone's electric fence between you and the exchange or roadside cabinet.

The only way you will really solve this problem is by switching to wireless internet :p

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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16 years 1 month ago #190531 by powerguy
Oh to get 14.4k! My best is usually around 3.0.

Louimay, if you can get an old fashioned battery transistor radio (or even your car radio) and tune to a part of the AM band with no station, drive the route to your phone exchange. At some point you will hear the clicks and they will get louder as you get closer to the source. When they start getting quieter, you have passed it so back up a bit. That will be a quick way to locate the general area and then do the walk bit.

It may be something as simple as a piece of grass touching the fence or perhaps stock have dislodged an insulator.

BTW, I believe it is an offence to interfere with telecommunications and Telecom can issue the offender with a notice (if you can get them to be interested).

Renewable power systems - hydro, wind and solar.
Grid tie and off grid (stand alone)
www.poweron.kiwi.nz

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16 years 1 month ago #190614 by KiwiOverseas

Louimay;162863 wrote:

finally are Telecom likely to come and help me find the cause if I ring them bearing in mind we are with Xnet for our internet and our phone calls?

If you're having a problem with your internet connection and your provider is Xnet then unfortunately you'll have to log any fault with them. Its a bit like buying a PC. Regardless of how much you might know and who the direct source of the technology is (intel, AMD, etc) - your provider is the PC reseller.

Telecom is no longer your provider - Xnet is (Telecom simply wholesales lines to Xnet). Presumably you changed to Xnet because they were better and you didn't want to deal with Telecom? Once you disconnect its pretty much a complete process (you wont be dealing with Telecom anymore).

It may pay to log a fault with Xnet if you haven't done so already. They're a good bunch and are pretty good at following up on faults. Oh - and the "interfering with telecommunications equipment" offence powerguy is referring to is the usual "damage to private property" provision extended to all companies, individuals (i.e - if you damage someone else's property, etc). Telecom doesn't have an enforcement branch and doesn't have the ability like a local council or govt agency to issue infringement notices (it has to go through a court like everyone else).

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?

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16 years 1 month ago #190646 by LongRidge
As powerguy said, but you can tune to any am station (so you can listen to some silly song while you're prowling). You will have to drive quite slowly. Also, take your voltmeter with you so that you can test whether the clicking on the radio is coming from the left side, or the right side. Any reading less than about 2.5kV strongly suggests a short along the telephone line. You go in to owner of the fence and ask him to fix it. If he won't/doesn't then get DH to go and cut the wire, or discuss more forcibly with the fence owner.

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16 years 1 month ago #190663 by ccrk9
Condolances Louimay - we have had the same problem off and on over the last few months. Its the first time in 3 year here its been a problem. We are over 20km from the exchange with miles and miles and miles of fences between us and the exchange.

We turned our fences off - didnt help, did a roadside walk aroung the area - didnt help. DH rang Telecom (or whoever) who were of no help and indeed told us to read their web page on internet connections and electric fences.....grrrr!

After about 4 days with no internet we saw a van up the road with two guys up a pole, then it went to the neighbours about 1km away and when it drove off later our internet connection was back - seems our neighbour had a problem with his SKY connection and his phone line earthing....coincidence?

Then it happened again a few weeks later and we wondered if the dry ground conditions meant the fences were not earthing properly so DH filled a huge barrow with water and tipped it over the Telecom thing out on the road...two barrows of water and our connection was back again.

The other time we lost our connection we found it was due to a portable fence used by our neighbour on the verge just down the road from us - when he moved the fence the problem stopped. And yet we checked that fence and found no trace of a short.

At no stage did we ever find a trace of a short anywhere, even when the neighbours measured the volts or whatever on the fences once they were aware of our problem

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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16 years 1 month ago #190695 by Louimay
Thanks everyone for your answers to my questions...

We went for a wee drive today with the radio on and there was clicking everywhere...LOL. The whole valley seems to have shorting fences according to my radio..LOL :D

Looks like I will just have to live with it doesn't it? Funny thing is, tonight it just stopped, the phone has stopped clicking and my internet is back up to its normal speed, so hopefully some farmer found their short.

I noticed it happened a couple of months ago...for 24 hours and then it came right again. In the five years or so I have had my computer here I haven't had this problem before.

If it happens again I will try and go for another drive and really try and pinpoint the problem but we are quite a way from the exchange I think (to be honest I have no idea where it actually is!) so it could be a fruitless task.

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16 years 1 month ago #190888 by powerguy
Louimay, your exchange is at the Mot Vly end of Waiwhero Rd. Small cream building a few sections behind the hall.

Yes, driving with the radio on AM certainly shows up the poor state of some fences. Sometimes it can be vegetation causing it and when it dries out or moves in a wind the problem goes away. We had an annoying one that turned out to be a bit of bird crap on an insulator!

Renewable power systems - hydro, wind and solar.
Grid tie and off grid (stand alone)
www.poweron.kiwi.nz

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16 years 1 month ago #190891 by moggy
The clicking is not due to a fence shorting out, it is just because electric fences pulse rather than have a constant current through them.
31K?? At the moment I am trying to get telecom to re-route our line because we have usually a dowload speed of 5K max!! It wouldn't be so bad except I am married to a Telecom engineer!!!! We know exactly what the problem is, but because until yesterday we got our line rental from Slingshot, they would not register a problem on the line and neither would Telecom, cos they said Slingshot should do it. We are the second closest house to a cabinet 1km away (with boosters in) yet our line does not come from there, it comes from over 30km away.

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16 years 1 month ago #190991 by GrantK

moggy;163264 wrote: The clicking is not due to a fence shorting out, it is just because electric fences pulse rather than have a constant current through them.

Yes, that is the reason you hear the clicks on the radio Moggy. It is radiated interference in that the electric fence (hotwire) acts as an aerial.

However, in order to interfere with a phone cable, some current needs to be flowing, and with a perfect electric fence i.e. without any shorts, no current is flowing.

Wherever a short appears, the current flows, and hence it will interfere with any phone cables in the vicinity.

moggy;163264 wrote: We know exactly what the problem is, but because until yesterday we got our line rental from Slingshot, they would not register a problem on the line and neither would Telecom, cos they said Slingshot should do it.

In theory, this is not how it should be: The Chorus unit of Telecom provides the line which is then rented to you via Telecom's Retail unit, or via a third party retailer such as Slingshot. It should make no difference at all, which retailer you rent your line from.

Potentially, you have a case which could be referred to the Telecom Complaints Forum for resolution because this type of behaviour is anti-competitive and breaches the Operational Separation agreement Telecom has with the government.

However, taking a pragmatic approach, it just isn't worth the effort, and most people do as you have done i.e. move back to Telecom.

moggy;163264 wrote: We are the second closest house to a cabinet 1km away (with boosters in) yet our line does not come from there, it comes from over 30km away.

Usually, your line would terminate in the cabinet, with phone calls/internet being carried by Fibre to the nearest exchange. However, in your case it sounds like your line is just looped through the cabinet and then runs a further 30km to the exchange. No wonder your dial-up performance is so dismal [xx(]

As you know, I'm a wireless enthusiast, so you know that I will say:

Ditch those copper relics of the 20th century and go wireless [8D]

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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16 years 1 month ago #191001 by moggy
Nope, it doesn't go through tha cabinet at all, believe me on this one, we have had telecom engineers out (one who is a mate) and although they cannot tell us exactly where is goes, they can say it definitely does not go to the cabinet - our line does not feature on the plans for the area. It has got to the point that OH is now in neogtiations with the network designer at his work to see how it can be re-routed. I say we get 5K, but at its worst it was down to 2.4K and completely unusable.

Yes I know slingshot should have registered the fault, their excuse was their software had no option for bad dialup speed (yeah right), so yes the easiest option is to switch back to telecom, which I did.

You know the irony of this situation? If the exchange would handle it, we could get FREE broadband as he works for telecom.

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16 years 1 month ago #191003 by GrantK

moggy;163381 wrote: You know the irony of this situation? If the exchange would handle it, we could get FREE broadband as he works for telecom.

Oh Moggy, that truly is ironic (and bl00dy annoying [:(!]).

Surely he can pull some strings then, given enough trays of Lion Red or Speights :p

Live weather data and High/Low records for our farm at: www.keymer.name/weather

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16 years 1 month ago #191135 by KiwiOverseas

GrantK;163371 wrote:
In theory, this is not how it should be: The Chorus unit of Telecom provides the line which is then rented to you via Telecom's Retail unit, or via a third party retailer such as Slingshot. It should make no difference at all, which retailer you rent your line from.

Potentially, you have a case which could be referred to the Telecom Complaints Forum for resolution because this type of behaviour is anti-competitive and breaches the Operational Separation agreement Telecom has with the government.

Sorry Grant - am I missing something here? Chorus is a wholesale unit isn't it - which means it's commercial relationship is with the likes of slingshot, ihug, Xnet, etc - who in turn supply services to consumers. If I remember rightly the whole point of the separation was to get Telecom out of loop so to speak so that people were free to choose a provider other than Telecom. Unfortunately that also includes fault resolution - even if the lines are leased by the provider from Telecom.

If the line is leased by Slingshot from Telecom to allow them to provide voice and internet services - then it belongs to Slingshot doesn't it? More importantly - part of the monthly rental payment to Slingshot for a "service" will include support for that service (i.e repair of faults). The way I thought it operated was a bit like renting a toyota from avis. If you have a problem - you complain to avis, not toyota.

hmmm.......now I'm confused

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?

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16 years 1 month ago #191189 by moggy
In theory yes you are correct, sllingshot should be responsible for the fault. In practice, slingshot don't want to know (I expect they will be charged for fixing it). So we voted with our feet and went back to telecom who OH can badger till the cows come home until it is sorted.

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16 years 1 month ago #191940 by Louimay

powerguy;163261 wrote: Louimay, your exchange is at the Mot Vly end of Waiwhero Rd. Small cream building a few sections behind the hall.


Thanks Powerguy :)

Well the problem is back and worse than ever.[:(!] :( :([:(!]

I was talking to my SIL the other night who lives in Canterbury and she is having the same problem. She talked to Telecom and they also said to drive along with the radio on AM to pick up the source of the problem. They said to just drive from the green box (I know what they are but what they "actually" are is a mystery to me). So anyway we have one of those not too far away so yeserday I drove from there back to home and I think I have found the general area where the problem is.

It is down at our next door neighbours and it is either his fence or the one across the road. Couldn't physically see anything so couldn't fix it myself.

So I am wondering does the short have to be on the fence that runs parallel/close to the phone line or can it be anywhere on their entire farm?

I am going to get brave soon and ring him and try and politely ask him if he would mind turning his fence off for a minute just to see if it is his (in theory the clicking should stop on my phone if it is his fence causing it?). If it is still clicking I will have to ring the other property owner.....sigh:( The first guy is a bit arrogant, particularly towards females so I am really dreading ringing him[B)]

I don't mind helping to find the short but I don't want to wander all over thier land without asking them first.

I can't stand this internet connection any more. I don't mind too much it being slow but being tossed off every 5 minutes is fustrating!!

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