ACC vs Sickness

Organicltd as a self employed person you do get ACC cover for accidents (your post kind of read as if you thought you don't). It is pretty crappy though - the system is designed for those on salaries/wages and doesn't work nearly as well for the self employed. Well that's my experience anyway.

I don't know what the hospital admission forms are like these days, but when I went in to have my 4th one of the questions was, "Are you here as a result of an accident". I ticked yes. Wonder if I can claim historical monies.

hilldweller;157425 wrote: Organicltd as a self employed person you do get ACC cover for accidents (your post kind of read as if you thought you don't). It is pretty crappy though - the system is designed for those on salaries/wages and doesn't work nearly as well for the self employed. Well that's my experience anyway.

Yes I know that, but as you say its not worth the hassels of claiming for small accidents.

Toni, the hosp gets paid more moeny if its an ACC problem.. originally they didnt.. the other interesting thing with ACC is that they expect you to have an accident, go to your GP or private clinic, for the initial consult,then no more payments until after the 7th day, hence a simple plaster cast is put on the arm because of swelling[ so clinical judgement] but because they say or only pay after the 7th day, any treatment done isnt covered until then so we would have to make sure any plaster changes etc are done after the 7th day to get paid.. for what is then an expensive cast, the fibreplast one... so sometimes an unecessary delay.. same with sutures, cut thy face and the sutures should come out on day 3-4 but GP's are leaving them in until the 8th day so they get the extra payment.. and all to cover costs not to make a profit.

Yes the welfare system is a saftey net, and thank goodness the net was there when I needed it - I could have many years ago decided I would not work, but the way I was brought up I have always been taught to stand on my own two feet and not ask for help. I worked for 30 years in various jobs till I got to the point that I couldnt go on - my medical records are full of notes fron Drs recommending I stop work and yet the I had to fight to get help when I did stop work. When I have medical records going back 50 years showing my health has been a problem why should I have to fight for every little bit of help?

I dont expect to be paid not to work while taking holidays, drinking or smoking or have a flash house. I dont have holidays, dont drink or smoke and my house is basic - but its warm and dry if a bit scruffy. I dont mind not going out, not having takeaways etc but I would love to go to the dentist or go and get my eyes checked....but its simply unafforable.

All those of us who end up in this situation thru no fault of our own, be it by accident of genetics at birth or due to some terminal illness want is an income that is more livable to meet our basic needs - the same as accident victims get now. Had I been a normal healthy person I would have covered myself against problems with health and income protection insurance - but as I said previously, insurance was not an option for me.

Welfare for those who dont really need it does seem to be easy to get for example -
There was a recent item in a local paper about the low unemployment rate in Wairarapa. Yeah right! A Dr told me last year he was seeing unemployed people sent to him by WINZ to get medical certificates so they could be placed on sickness/invalids benefits when there was nothing wrong with them!! And I might add he refuses to certify these people. Its just another example of Governments manipulating things to stay in power. Really the whole system needs a through overhall.

the benefit structure is such that even honest people are tempted to misused the system just to get by.

There is the unemployment benefit, then sickness is a wee bit more, then invalids (conditions that won't improve or are terminal) get a wee bit more again.

Even though my sons illness is terminal, WINZ in their wisdom pay a 'designated' doctor $165 once a year to assess that he is unable to work. Even though they have established the fact that it will never improve and only get worse they waste money and time on this as well as the fact that it is upsetting for the beneficary. I always think of the amount of groceries I could put in his cupboard for that amount of money. On top of what they pay the doctor they also pay for a taxi each way for hem to get to the doctor as it is out of his area so there is another $50 wasted.

Prim,
what i should have done in hindsight was, drag my wife out the house and down on to the stairs of our deck and then called an ambulance for her and just said she must have slipped, but because i was raised to stand up work hard and pay your own way, i did not do it.
the other option was if i walked out on my wife and son of 12 years old, my mortgage, all my bills would have been paid, my wife would have had home help and my son would have been taken to school and back and received counselling as well AND i could have still stayed 3-4 nights a week. it brings me back to my basic point when the people that have paid to keep the system going need help dont get it and the people that screw the system thrive and take it for all its worth. its got to change.

When my Grandfather became terminally ill in the UK, back in the 1940 - 50's, my Nan had to apply for public funding to afford some school uniforms for my uncles (not jumpers and stuff 'cause Nan knitted those).

Anyhow to get the funding, their house (privately rented at the time) was inspected, and certain pieces of furniture were deemed "excessive" and had to go.

A sideboard table, a good lounge suite, one chair per person, and some general belongings, all things bought when G.Dad was working and not their true worth of course when selling second hand.... Nan also had to change to the public rental system.

This Nan undertook and she once again applied for funding. She was given approval for the funding, and was accompanied by an authorised person of the dept to ensure she spent the funds on the school uniforms and nothing else.....

Fast forward to today's thinking, how would people react to this sort of "policing" if it were in place today?

In an environment where its not PC to discuss beneficiaries or even discuss those who do rort the system, how would it be seen if the Govt of the day (or country to be fair) appointed "supervisors" to oversee that the public dollar is spent correctly as it used to be in the UK?

Don't think it would go down too well and there would be a major outcry...

The Kats Place;157448 wrote: the benefit structure is such that even honest people are tempted to misused the system just to get by.

There is the unemployment benefit, then sickness is a wee bit more, then invalids (conditions that won't improve or are terminal) get a wee bit more again.

Even though my sons illness is terminal, WINZ in their wisdom pay a 'designated' doctor $165 once a year to assess that he is unable to work. Even though they have established the fact that it will never improve and only get worse they waste money and time on this as well as the fact that it is upsetting for the beneficary. I always think of the amount of groceries I could put in his cupboard for that amount of money. On top of what they pay the doctor they also pay for a taxi each way for hem to get to the doctor as it is out of his area so there is another $50 wasted.

Kats, I'm find it rather odd that your son has to go to a designated WINZ Dr every year when the illness is terminal. Fair Go had a case last year (I think) about a parent with a child who was a Downes Syndrome or some such (sorry my memeory is bad on this ) and WINZ made the child be checked by their DR every year. Once Fair Go got involved WINZ backed down and said yes the child no longer had to see a WINZ Dr once a year. An annual review of medical costs and the finances of the case were still carried out but WINZ accepted the childs condition was not going to improve. WINZ clearly stated that where medical problems were from birth or terminal that the visits to the WINZ Drs each year could be waived on a case by case basis - may be you need to kick up a fuss with the WINZ manager at your sons WINZ office.

In my case I had a WINZ Dr check me out when I stopped work but I dont have to have another WINZ Dr check me for another 2 years - I still have to go thru an annual review thing and have my GP sign papers but dont get hauled off to a WINZ Dr.

Further to that, TKP:

"Red Tape Wrangle
Reporter: Kevin Milne
Georgie Simmons of Auckland wrote to Fair Go sick of the number of times her son, Derek, who has Down Syndrome, needed a medical to confirm he had the condition. The medicals were a requirement by Work and Income for people applying for new, or continued, benefits.

Georgie made the point that Down Syndrome was something you were born with, and would eventually die with. She asked why Work and Income needed to keep demanding medicals when they had it on their records that Derek had Down Syndrome.

Fair Go raised the issue with Work and Income, who agreed that staff should not be demanding on-going medicals for those with Down Syndrome. They accepted that Georgie had a point, and have criticised their own policy which, they said, added extra stress to the care-givers of those with Down Syndrome. They said that those with Down Syndrome will no longer have to keep getting medicals to "prove" their condition.
They have apologised to Georgie and Derek.

While Fair Go agreed with Georgie's point, they were impressed that Work and Income's response was swift, honest and apologetic."

tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1016195

Thats the only real big downer of living in NZ, you either need to be injured to be covered by ACC, or you need good medical insurance. I feel really sorry for those not covered by either. I firmly believes that certain illnesses should have the bills covered by the government!

maggies mum;157541 wrote: I feel really sorry for those not covered by either.

Everyone is covered by acc for accidents. It is a no fault insurance cover scheme that we all pay for through our car registration, employee and employer levees, and no doubt other things. It is not funded by our taxes as such. I read somewhere that the acc had investments overseas of 5.5 billion dollars. Makes you wonder why they need so much.

Winz own doctor wrote a very strong letter to his case manager telling them that things would only ever get worse and not to send him for assessment again - and you guessed it - like clockwork the assessment forms arrived the next year with a very blunt letter saying get this done and returned to us by a set date or your entitlments would stop. The Doctor he needs to see is also the doctor of a super 12 (now 14) team so it is not always easy to get an appointment in the allowed time. He sees a specialist up at Waikato every three months, but he is not allowed to do the paper work even though he has a speciality in this area, it has to be the doctor they stipulate. The first couple of times it happened he sort of got his hopes up that he would get better - it was heart breaking to have to watch him go through the acceptance all over again.

organicltd;157544 wrote: Everyone is covered by acc for accidents. It is a no fault insurance cover scheme that we all pay for through our car registration, employee and employer levees, and no doubt other things. It is not funded by our taxes as such. I read somewhere that the acc had investments overseas of 5.5 billion dollars. Makes you wonder why they need so much.

Aye, but if it's not classed as an accident and someone who needs treatment who doesn't have medical insurance, how do they pay??

I had a small procedure done recently, nothing serious, just womans stuff and if I had had to pay it would have been nearly $4000!! If we hadn't got health insurance then I doubt of I'd have had it done!

I won't even start on dental treatment! Needless to say we haven't been in the 4 years since we've been here because I'm not going to pay the prices they charge!

maggies mum;157561 wrote:
I won't even start on dental treatment! Needless to say we haven't been in the 4 years since we've been here because I'm not going to pay the prices they charge!

MM I have to have hygienist work (my spit is too acidy or something) twice a year, and since starting the treatment I haven't had a filling or serious work done for well over 12 years.

Preventative is so much better, cheaper, but needs the commitment to go....