ACC vs Sickness

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14 years 3 months ago #11959 by organicltd
ACC vs Sickness was created by organicltd
Reading in todays paper I see common sense has prevailed in a decision by the High court regarding a claim by a disabled woman with multiple sclerosis to have her illness covered by ACC.

ACC is an insurance scheme that covers all injury, disability's etc caused by accident. The fact that her disability was caused by an illness and not an accident means she has no right to ACC coverage.

Being self employed means I have to cover myself for loss of income, wether from sickness or injury. Why should those who get ill expect the same as those from accident beats me. While I sympathize with her over her illness, trying to get the same coverage from ACC is wrong.

Wine does not make you FAT it makes you LEAN...
....against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.

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14 years 3 months ago #185122 by oskatd
Replied by oskatd on topic ACC vs Sickness
Poor woman, MS is a hideous disease, but I agree, it isn't an accident, rather a cruel twist of fate. Am surprised it got as far as the High Court.... Someone must have thought the case had some merit.

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14 years 3 months ago #185124 by betenoir
Replied by betenoir on topic ACC vs Sickness
Was that the woman from Cambridge who was on the tv last week?

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] BAAAAAAAAA

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14 years 3 months ago #185127 by Isla
Replied by Isla on topic ACC vs Sickness
There are a great number of accidents not covered by ACC ... unless you do something deliberately, during a rugby game or in the process of committing a crime, for instance. Someone else does something hideous to you, i.e. an accident to your person, and you're often not covered. The system is holey, holy, wholly crap. [}:)]

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14 years 3 months ago #185140 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic ACC vs Sickness
How do you successfully "fix it though to suit all?

I am privy to the knowledge of someone going back over their returns to "adjust" for ACC claim. Yet that person manages to get through the day achieving most normal duties.... and I hardly think that is fair, and robs the "system" for those truly in need.

But I have beaten this drum before.......:(

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14 years 3 months ago #185220 by ccrk9
Replied by ccrk9 on topic ACC vs Sickness

organicltd;157127 wrote: Reading in todays paper I see common sense has prevailed in a decision by the High court regarding a claim by a disabled woman with multiple sclerosis to have her illness covered by ACC.
ACC is an insurance scheme that covers all injury, disability's etc caused by accident. The fact that her disability was caused by an illness and not an accident means she has no right to ACC coverage.
Being self employed means I have to cover myself for loss of income, wether from sickness or injury. Why should those who get ill expect the same as those from accident beats me. While I sympathize with her over her illness, trying to get the same coverage from ACC is wrong.


As far as I'm concerned the problem is more the inequality of getting help if you have a long term illness/disability as opposed to the help made available to accident victims.

I was born disabled with spine problems (and have associated complex medical problems) and my parents were told I would never walk properly and would be in a wheelchair- it hasnt happened yet, but it could at any time:(.

I was up till 4 years ago, self employed. I paid ACC like everyone else but I could not get private insurance to cover me if I stopped work - insurance companies simply would not cover me due to my existing problems and should I develope further problems there would have been the debate that they were or were not related to my pre existing conditions and would not be covered.

Due to deteriorating health I am not presently working, which is a bit of a shock after 30 years in the workforce (often doing work my Drs said I couldnt/shouldnt :) ). If I should get to the point of having to go into a wheelchair I will have tremendous trouble getting finacial assistance to alter the house or to get a suitable car. Yet any idiot who goes out drunk and drives that has an accident, smashes up their spine and ends up in a wheel chair can get ACC help to (in most cases fully funded!) alter their house, get a suitable car and get paid a reasonable portion of their previous income.

All the lady taking the court case is asking is for fair treatment for those of us with disabilities to be able to gain access to help at the same rates as those that have accidents.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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14 years 3 months ago #185239 by organicltd
Replied by organicltd on topic ACC vs Sickness

ccrk9;157240 wrote:
All the lady taking the court case is asking is for fair treatment for those of us with disabilities to be able to gain access to help at the same rates as those that have accidents.

And who do you expect to pay for this?

Wine does not make you FAT it makes you LEAN...
....against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.

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14 years 3 months ago #185241 by The Kats Place
Replied by The Kats Place on topic ACC vs Sickness
ccrk9 - I couldn't agree more! Those with illness through no fault of there own are treated like second class citizens in our society. Through a support group I belong to I see many people with long term and aften terminal illness trying to live on about $200 a week - and thats with disability allowances. What standard of life is that? These folk are often unable to grow a few vegetables or anything like that to assist themselfs due to their illness. So thats phone, power, insurances, food (often special needs for nutrition) possibly lawn mowing, alarm monitoring, part charges for GP and medication. Thats all out of $200 and before they get clothing, haircuts, repairs or replacement to household appliances etc. They most certainly don't have a car! All this while dealing with a often painful or very shortened life. Its just not fair and I can understand the lady with MS making a stand.

kats
Live your life in such a way that it will be easy for people to say nice things at your funeral [;)]

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14 years 3 months ago #185247 by ccrk9
Replied by ccrk9 on topic ACC vs Sickness

organicltd;157261 wrote: And who do you expect to pay for this?


that is always going to be a big problem. I doubt (happy to be corrected) that ACC is fully funded by the levies we all pay. The tax system is already a contributor to invalids thru WINZ benefits. I just wonder why people get funding (like family assistance for people with kids) from the tax system for things they have control over (such as having children) while those of us who have no control over our situation get so little help and we have to fight to get every damn cent.

Kats - I agree. Many in that situation sell up, down size and do all they can to cut expenses but there is only so much you can cut. With prices going up the way there are many cannot afford basics of life and its interesting the things the Government has legislated that are essential to life and the things that are not in regard to what WINZ can and cannot assist with. Unfortunately there is often a one size fits all rule and if you fall outside the rule of entitlement to damn bad.

The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a comfortable
living from a small piece of land. ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

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14 years 3 months ago #185291 by rob
Replied by rob on topic ACC vs Sickness
the whole point of a welfare system is to help people who fall on hard times and get them back on their feet again. its the same as housing corp, it was set up for people to a start in life and then move on. the system has been abused for so long now its falling apart. it has to be overhauled completely and to revalue what the system is meant to be.
ask yourselves this what is the first thing that comes into your head when your hear, people on a sickness benefit, solo mother with 3-5 kids and people that have been on the dole for years. the needy ones that deserve help get lumped in with the scumbags as well. i am more than happy to pay my taxes if the RIGHT people get the help that they need.
it is a system that is out of control.

Rob

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14 years 3 months ago #185339 by betenoir
Replied by betenoir on topic ACC vs Sickness
Rob I couldn't agree more..when I had a temporary 'bad' patch (circumstances beyond my control!) I couldn't even get a loan for fuel to get to a job interview to get out of the bad patch..but some of my neighbours with no intention of ever working ( 4 kids and another on the way) were getting enough benefit to allow them to go out on the p%ss several times a week. Luckily good neighbours let me fill up from their farm tank and I paid them back in relief milkings.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] BAAAAAAAAA

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14 years 3 months ago #185340 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic ACC vs Sickness
ccrk9 - you have my total 100% support for your situation and for the one of the lady with MS trying to get a decent living standard.

When welfare was first introduced to this country, it was for a hand up not a hand out. The abuse by successive governments of the "dream" is appalling. I bet there is not a working person out there who would begrudge decent support for a person with a genetic or subsequent disability e.g. MS and not at the measly rate applied.

Put this another way, and I don't want this altered as I am heading this way far too rapidly, but if we have a non income based pensioner allowance (including for those worth millions) then why can't we have a decent standard of living for those with disabilities outside their control that enables them, the same way an accident victim is supported. I too find it a total anathema that drunk drivers and the like get the support they get but at the end of the day, they need it as well. Just why not the genetic disabilities? We scream we are anti euthenasia but what are we doing to support these people? It makes no sense to me except that I worked for a disability organisation and a Minister in charge of Disabilities for a number of years had about as much caring and understanding of the subject as a mole.

How much do we give out of our taxes in Foreign Aid? Strange one to me was Narau not wanting a plane flying into Palmerson North. How much foreign aid does this country give to Narau?

So no, let's all get angry and support out disabled community and start shouting out about the inequalities in the system. How many disabled people would have benefited if 150 people didn't go to the UK for Sir Ed's service. This humble man - how would he have felt? Let's start looking after our own first.

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14 years 3 months ago #185373 by rob
Replied by rob on topic ACC vs Sickness
my wife had an aneurysm on the brain 5 years ago, my son was 12 at the time, i asked for help and was told i was not entitled to anything as i was earning to much. not even any help to get my son to school. i still get mad even after all this time

Rob

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14 years 3 months ago #185375 by rob
Replied by rob on topic ACC vs Sickness
my wife just told me that a good friend of ours has just gone to the bank to take out a loan to pay for her medication for breast cancer, she is a hard working woman who has never asked for anything in her life. something has got to change.[:(!][:(!][:(!]

Rob

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14 years 3 months ago #185384 by Prim
Replied by Prim on topic ACC vs Sickness
For what it's worth -

This is one of the issues with our ACC legislation. You're essentially not covered unless something has occurred with an outside influence. So, if you hurt your back getting out of bed in the morning, really, you're not covered. If you hurt your back getting out of bed in the morning because you stood on one of your slippers and you slipped, then you're covered. So, hint, always have an outside influence to your injuries!

I believe, Rob, that your wife wouldn't have been covered because there is no outside influence to an aneurysm. I have difficultly with women not being covered for (eg) injury which may occur during child-birth. The baby isn't an outside influence (it's inside). This was ACC's position a number of years ago, and I believe the legislation (and hence their interpretation) won't have changed.

I also have problems with people who are committing an offence (or two) who (eg) drive drunk, have an accident, and then ACC comes to their treatment, rehabilitative and financial rescue.

By the same token, I don't know how you cover some people and not cover others (ie don't cover those who are committing criminal offences).

And I personally believe that many people do deserve more. But then I also believe that welfare is too easy to get in this country (with some languishing on unemployment and sickness benefits for years when really, they are just bludging). It's getting the balance right. Perhaps I'm being naive but, someone with a permanent disability who will never work - why should they earn 80% of what a forestry worker does? I'm not saying they ought not get a liveable income (which again, I believe welfare doesn't always provide in this country), I'm just not sure in my head whether they ought to be recompensed to the same levels as injured others.

I also believe that if more men suffered from breast cancer (especially those presumably deciding what drug gets Pharmac funding and what doesn't), then Herceptin would be covered for the full 12 month course, not just the initial 9 week (?) one! I find it really difficult to rationalise some decisions. You don't decide to get breast cancer. Sometimes, you can actually make decisions which contribute towards (eg) diabetes. So (I am totally assuming here, as I don't really know) - why are diabetes drugs fully funded but cancer treatments proven not?

Well, my two cents worth. I've probably dug myself into a hole which I won't argue out of ......

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