Claiming land with no owner??

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14 years 3 months ago #11690 by moggy
Anyone know if this is possible here?
In the UK if a piece of land has no legal owner, you can apply and have the land transferred to your name (legally, this is not a scam and it does happen)
Can you tell me if this is the case in NZ? There are a couple of bits of land that I have been told from the council that do not hold a legal title (nor are they occupied). One could be useful to me for a business venture. They are not huge areas of land, but big enough for a commercial premise. Of course not saying where these two bits of land are.
Has anyone done this?

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14 years 3 months ago #181067 by Ronney
That all sounds a bit dodgy to me and I doubt very much that there is too much land around that has no legal title or owner. Probably best that you consult a lawyer who can do a search and advise.

Cheers,
Ronnie

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14 years 3 months ago #181072 by wino
Replied by wino on topic Claiming land with no owner??
I think you will find that land without a title belongs to the government here. The Torrens title system works a bit differently than the English Deeds system and I believe the underlying premise is that ownership is with the Crown.

You could also find that there are some Maori land issues with land like that.

There is some legal precedent for the occupier to become the owner of land that they have occupied for X amounts of years (a long time though) but that is land with a title and previous owner.

Never have a hangover - stay drunk

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14 years 3 months ago #181077 by OakhengeFarm
Take a look at the ongoing saga over the old Patea Freezing Works site which burnt down on Waitangi Day, causing an evacuation of Patea because of the risk of asbestos dust in the smoke.

It turned out that the company which had owned the land no longer exists, and the lawyers are having a field day - most saying that ownership automatically returns to the crown. The argument is actually over who is responsible for paying for the asbestos cleanup - could be $5 million at least!. Other contenders are the Patea District Council, local iwi, the man who has been grazing the area, or even the man who formed the company years ago, and who has been paying rates from Australia ever since.

This is a somewhat different situation to yours, since everyone is frantically denying ownership of the land (and the cleanup costs). It will be interesting to follow this one long term, as it could end up clarifying just what you are asking.

11 acres (4 in QEII Covenanted native bush), 15 sheep, 2 beefies, large vege gardens and a goat, and still no dog!:(

Oh, and uncountable wild birds - including fantails, swallows, yellowhammers, morepork, magpies, hawks, pukekos, and even quaill, pheasants and rainbow lorikeets [:D][:D] Not to mention possums, hares, rabbits, rats...

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14 years 3 months ago #181084 by reggit
I think that any land in NZ who's ownership cannot be determined otherwise goes under LINZ (Land Information NZ) for management and 'ownership'.

Take a break...while I take care of your home, your block, your pets, your stock! [;)] PM me...

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14 years 3 months ago #181104 by Pumpkingirl

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14 years 3 months ago #181142 by ame
Replied by ame on topic Claiming land with no owner??
If you pop into the LINZ office on Hereford St you can check out their maps and look at titles for the land in question. New Zealand is mapped down to the last centimetre, I'd be surprised if there was a piece of land that was not known about or not owned.

A

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14 years 3 months ago #181143 by Llew
Replied by Llew on topic Claiming land with no owner??
There's quite a bit of unused & unowned land around - I had a house in the 'burbs with three unowned sections next door. Only one of them was accessible & has now been built on.

It never ocured to me to check if I could "annex" them though.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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14 years 3 months ago #181203 by moggy
Replied by moggy on topic Claiming land with no owner??

ame;152807 wrote: If you pop into the LINZ office on Hereford St you can check out their maps and look at titles for the land in question. New Zealand is mapped down to the last centimetre, I'd be surprised if there was a piece of land that was not known about or not owned.

A

There are definitely two areas of land locally. I was researching something else and trying to find out the owner of a different piece of land (for other reasons). As part of trying to establish which bit of land I was on about I was told by chch council that there was no legal title or owner to these two bits of land, and it was not mapped out as vacant section either. So fairly confident there is no human owner. As to the next stage if any, I will have to do a bit research.

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14 years 3 months ago #181205 by moggy
Replied by moggy on topic Claiming land with no owner??

Ronney;152723 wrote: That all sounds a bit dodgy to me and I doubt very much that there is too much land around that has no legal title or owner.

In the UK it is not dodgy at all. If you think about it, large areas were bombed to bits in the UK, sometimes killing all inhabitants and due to the war situation, hence there are still plots around with no owner, and yes you can apply to own the land, obviously I guess the council would do the appropriate checks to ensure there was no owner before granting permission.
There is also another rule that if you fence in a bit of land, regardless of whether you own it after a certain number of years, if no objections have been made then the land is yours. There was a famous case in london where one person fenced in part of I think Hampstead heath (a posh park anyway), He was a tramp and lived in a shed on it, eventually he won the right to the land and became owner of a piece of land worth millions, so it does happen.
I did also inadvertently aquire some land in the UK, I moved my fence to where my conveyance said it should be. What I didn't know was that the convenyance I was given was not the same as the one that was originally lodged at the land registry. However after several years of no one objecting (it was wasteland and not accessible to anyone else), it was accepted that the land was now part of the property.

It would have been handy if there was a similar law that I could have made use of in NZ

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14 years 3 months ago #181222 by hilldweller
The UK's legal system surrounding land ownership is very different from NZ's - vastly different histories behind it. The land will belong to the Crown, or to local iwi, or be under the stewardship of the Trustee's Office (sorry can't think of the right name) but it won't be completely 'un-owned'.

hilldweller

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14 years 3 months ago #181272 by DiDi
Replied by DiDi on topic Claiming land with no owner??
Interesting topic as I have been googling properties around my area to find out what their value is (no private information is disclosed). What the google search has shown up is just that - parcels of land with no address so no ability to search. One I am interested in is because it used to be maintained by the local Council but is no longer and it is a damn disgrace. Now I am going to go in and find out!

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14 years 3 months ago #181274 by oskatd
The UK system is odd, it really is - you can sell a bit of your garden to the neighbour and it's not recorded anywhere, no title or anything. Also if you occupy land for a period of time it automatically becomes yours, no matter what. weird. handy though, you can nick a bit of your neighbours place without them knowing, then a few years down the track, presto, it's yours...... If you talk to a Pom about land titles they start looking at ya strange, if you mention zoning they get a bit anxious and start talking about the US. v.funny.

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14 years 3 months ago #181303 by moggy
Replied by moggy on topic Claiming land with no owner??
oskatd I would disagree about garden land sales, even a bit of your garden not being recorded, boundaries can often be hottly fort over, even a fence that is a foot in the wrong place (because land is at such a premium), so if here is a change in the boundary due to sale then it is always recorded legally. The reason that poms might seem a bit vague regarding land titles is that the English term is land deeds.
The bit about taking over someone elses land is, not just a few years, I believe 15 or 20 years and tbh if the owner has not noticed in that time, then he really can't need or want the land. All he has to do is to object once in that time and the land stays his. The key is to occupying it without objection

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14 years 3 months ago #181307 by moggy
Replied by moggy on topic Claiming land with no owner??

hilldweller;152894 wrote: but it won't be completely 'un-owned'.

following on from the earlier link, it does sound like it can be un-owned. It does default to LINZ, but I believe they have to take up ownership of it. If they haven't done that, then they can choose to allocate it to someone else who has a better use for it. (however no doubt a nice big hefty fee invovled, so not as simple as the UK).
So for example could I find a burial plot on the land of my ancestors, (obviously I can't) then I could apply to own the land.

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