City to Isolation

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7 years 1 month ago #509307 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
I think My operation is a little smaller than what many of you are doing.

I was thinking of chucking in about 10 trees that need to be big to yield. Like Avacado and some nuts.

Not any cattle. It is bush and in a rainforest.

It is definately worth chucking some trees In while we are there. I want to plant some vines on the north face of the 12 metre terrace as well. Moist with the waterfall right there, and good drainage.

I am not going to blow $hundreds. But want to try to get a head start on slow growers.

There are ample orchards and fruit trees around.

I will be able to forage a lot anyway around the place.

The main point of this trip is getting access in and clearing a building site and making sure it is in the sun.

Milling the timber so it can season.

I have contractors doing all that, I will be frolicking and exploring and getting a few trees in while they do that.

There is over an acre down the terrace where the waterfall goes that I have not even seen. It is difficult to see down there from the top.

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7 years 1 month ago #509483 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
I have managed to get all my info together enough to draft a plan of the property for building.

exactly north facing house.

For clearance our covenant states;

"Existing regenarative native forest shall be retained after the clearance of an area required for access to a house site, and for the dwelling and auxiliary building (not exceeding 90sqm), and for an area of garden and lawn, and an outdoor area totaling twice the area of the combined buildings."

Sounds like a good deal to me on our property. gonna use 'access clearance' to clear north of the house and keep moving that way for the most part to get more sun. Then to the west of the house to clear the view of the ocean.

I am going to re draft this now that I have worked out the garden is on top of the access allowance, so gonna make a decent turning circle for good measure.

Any criticism or advice welcomed...

The grey drive (to be modified) and green building site is what we will clear this year.

Only a matter of weeks now, everything booked and organised, MPI, mill and all.

:D

Attached files [IMG]http://app.lifestyleblock.co.nz/images/converted_files/516288=15742-full access building site..jpg[/img]

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7 years 1 month ago #509484 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
Here is an updated version with a more realistic access way.

and Greenhouse!!!

Attached files [IMG]http://app.lifestyleblock.co.nz/images/converted_files/516289=15743-turning circle drive.jpg[/img]

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7 years 1 month ago #509495 by Hawkspur
Replied by Hawkspur on topic City to Isolation
I can't tell what slope your land is on, but some things to keep in mind if you are going to have bush close to the house:
- sun angles and potential shading at different times of the year, both for the house and for garden, orchard, lawn.
- prevalent strong wind,
- prevalent annoying wind (for days that are warm in sheltered areas, but too cold in the wind)
- trees that might fall on the house or across the drive

If the terrain means slightly off true north is a better layout, say, a lot less excavation or, less expensive foundations, remember that anything within 10 degrees of true north is very, very close to the same as exactly true north for solar gain for the house or for PV generation.

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7 years 1 month ago #509549 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation

Hawkspur;516301 wrote: I can't tell what slope your land is on, but some things to keep in mind if you are going to have bush close to the house:
- sun angles and potential shading at different times of the year, both for the house and for garden, orchard, lawn.
- prevalent strong wind,
- prevalent annoying wind (for days that are warm in sheltered areas, but too cold in the wind)
- trees that might fall on the house or across the drive

If the terrain means slightly off true north is a better layout, say, a lot less excavation or, less expensive foundations, remember that anything within 10 degrees of true north is very, very close to the same as exactly true north for solar gain for the house or for PV generation.


Yeah I have taken all that into consideration. It is actually pretty flat up on the terrace.

The terrace is the light coloured wavy line. The black marks are 10 meter and 25 meters back so I can work with my covenants. Not allowed to clear anything over 5m within 10m of the terrace.

But is is pretty damned flat up there.

There are a couple of thin diagonal black lines which I have to indicate the best angles to maximise sunlight.

The whole thing might have to move north slightly if there are some dodgy/huge trees in the neighbours. Which I thing there is, but anything on our property is coming down if the poses a risk to the house and if it can come down we will move the house away from it. But this is the ideal location.

The council came back and sai this plan is fine to work with without any further certification.

Until the build that is. [8D]

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7 years 1 month ago #509555 by Hawkspur
Replied by Hawkspur on topic City to Isolation
Sounds like you've done a good bit of thinking. I hope the next stage goes well.
Clearing a bit of space makes a huge difference.

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7 years 4 weeks ago #509676 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
I am hoping that much of that cleared space will be filled with stacked slabs of native wood seasoning into nice bench-tops and a beautiful floor among other things for the next couple of years.

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6 years 9 months ago #514258 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
So I made a wee video of us discovering our land.

we had only spent a few hours on the property a year earlier when we were deciding to purchase it or not. I had a fair idea of how things would look but we could not be happier with the result so far...

check it out!

vimeo.com/142781287

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6 years 9 months ago #514307 by Kiwi Tussock
Replied by Kiwi Tussock on topic City to Isolation
I'd like to pat you on the back and encourage you heaps. Good on you and may it all work out well for you.
We also have had a guts full of "effort sucking Banks" and are also under way to do something along the similar lines but stay in NZ.
I planted an fenced an area (which I thought was stock proof, on 3.99999 sides at least) of prospective orchard land, approx 4 years ago.
I also planted a similar number of trees in 100Lt tubs, still where we live.

The trees in the tubs are of course, more well looked after and goats and possums etc havent ravaged them like the ones on the remote area where we have them planted out.
The tubbed plants are producing wonderful amount of fruit already.
For the more remotely planted orchard area, for each tree, I cut the tops & bottom out of old 44 gallon drums and then used an angle grinder to slit the same drums down ON ONE SIDE completely, as well the bulk of the top to bottom length of the other side of the drum also.
Then I tied the cut with 2 pieces of wire to ensure that they held closed.
I cut the drums so as in later years the drums could be removed without such a major hassle as one sees when observing other folk's previous plantings in drums.
The helped dear old Mr Possum to have an unsatisfied yearning for tasty apple tree tips especially.
The trouble is, wild goats found them and could reach the tops of the still young trees. Consequently, the trees now have numerous low branches developing.
I have left the low branches there, so as the tree can develop their root system while they are protected in this manner. I will select the main frame structure at a later time.

I found sheep fences are easy-peezy for pigs 'cause when I mulched the trees, it made them targets for wild pigs who were wanting the yummy worm life beneath the compost and inside the drums.
So, then I used waratahs (iron standards) to hold the drums down and this also helped when big storms blew across the hills where the trees are planted.

I also need the remote trees watered in the height of summer, so I ran a lateral & dripper system which is hooked up to a timer, from a tank.
The trouble then was, that the pigs also like the water and indeed, the lateral joiners were pulled out on a number of occasions and watering only got to some trees.

Believe it or not, I was SURE that I had worked out all problems that might arise so put in place systems that would allow me the absence that I was "hoping" for.
Boyo Boy, was I wrong.
The trees that are in the tubs have now been there for coming up to 5 & 6 years.
The tubbed trees urgently need planting in their final positions and that transfer will hit them hard. They will be root bound and so their roots will need to be cut so as the ability spread out underground to help survive our earths changing weather systems and subsequent strong winds The branches will need also to be taken hard back as well to compensate for the lack of feeding root systems.

What have I gained for doing this, these two different ways?
Well ,I now understand that I need to be on site or frequently need to be overseeing the property at least every 3 or 4 weeks. Because of the drought conditions, even more frequently.
Makeshift fences are not worth the risk. They must be 1st grade fencing and if pigs are possibly abound, then a netting with the bottom wire buried.
Drought, flood, feral animal and wind protection must be installed first.

I most certainly wouldn't expect to get production from your trees like you would get if you lived on site.
If your lucky, it will be a bonus to get the trees roots in place if you can, but in saying that, in reality, the cost of all the systems that are needed, I believe outweigh the benefits of planting early and being absent.
Along with that, is the frustration of experiencing the failing of ones efforts is at times heart breaking
Then, if looking at it in a business sense, & ....... if I was an accountant and converted those hours spent on setting it up & then seeing that effort wasted effort and if I converted that effort into dollars,...... Whoops ????????? BUGGER! ! !


Again I say, good on you for opting to go down this route to independence from the normal 'tread mill' that most are on but I hope you will choose a better way than I have experienced. We are definitely NOT changing our minds about where we are heading but I know we need to choose a different path to get there.

On a sightly different note...
I have found some fruit trees are VERY good with regards to curly leaf but others are hopeless so I will let the curly leaf susceptible ones die and seek heritage ones from the area or region, where the orchard is. Bringing trees in from out side areas has proven troublesome.
If you have the experience or would like a challenge that brings major satisfaction, it would be to hunt for old fruit trees which fruit in your chosen location. You may find trees to take cuttings off. Some of the older varieties are pest resistant to a far greater extent than the hot new varieties.

Best wishes
The following user(s) said Thank You: rhyso

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #514328 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
Cheers,

We chucked in few trees in paces that get good sun, have good drainage and will have enough room in the long run for the mature trees.

I assume a couple will fail but I spent only about $150 and potentially have Apple, Orange, Lemon, mandarin, Almond, Blue berry, nasturtium.

I want good root stock and have chosen grafted and hardy versions. I can graft multiple varieties on these plants once they establish, if thy manage to do so and are not eaten by local fauna.

These were just a bonus, Once we are there, there will be more difficult plants and controlled environments created.

Though we might sell our excess, we are not planning on any commercial venture with our produce. Our produce will be purely to subsidise our early retirement somewhat by reducing living costs and increasing the quality and healthiness of our diet.

Apart from orchard fruits, all our produce will be grown in an enclosed animal (weka, possumn and chicken) proof green house.

There are plenty of older fruit trees and abandoned groves in karamea. Just looking at properties shows you how rife these are.

Instead of planting more common fruits of the area like Fiejoa, kiwifruit and Tamarillo. I will prune and thin the trees that have been neglected over time and take advantage of the older and more resistant trees and vines.

Over time we will have our own from cuttings taken locally but initially there will be a lot of fossicking and utilizing that which usually goes to waste.
Last edit: 6 years 9 months ago by rhyso.

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6 years 9 months ago #514332 by tonybaker
Replied by tonybaker on topic City to Isolation
wow, I think we all admire your adventurous optimism!!! Growing trees where there are possums is really hard. Your idea of growing produce in a tunnelhouse/enclosure is the way to go. Go for dwarf varieties, you can even plant them in "grow bags" www.ruraldelivery.net.nz/2007/06/root-re...ion-in-cherry-trees/
I think if you plant trees in plain view, you will lose them. If you are only wanting to provide for your own needs, you don't need groves of trees. By the way, make sure the cultivars you choose are naturally resistant to disease, I planted a lot of apple trees initally, but after a few years I replaced them as I got fed up spraying all the time.

You say "you may sell the surplus" whatever you do don't get involved with IRD or GST, it is not worth the hassle, better to trade surplus for something else. It is tempting to register for GST but it will come back to bite you in later years.

You have got to have a tractor, the Fergie 35 is ideal, especially with a bucket out front.

Good luck, and don't feel you bad if you sell up in 5 years, a lot of people do!

5 acres, Ferguson 35X and implements, Hanmay pto shredder, BMW Z3, Countax ride on mower, chooks, Dorper and Wiltshire sheep. Bosky wood burning central heating stove and radiators. Retro caravan. Growing our own food and preserving it. Small vineyard, crap wine. :)

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #531286 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
Well two years later I have been back 3 times and every single tree/shrub I have planted is still growing and healthy. The only problem is the blueberries I planted along the terrace are a bit exposed so are struggling. I planted some more in a more sheltered place near the entrance.

Our neighbors are the local possum control people. there are very few in the area at the moment which helps.

We now have Apple, Orange, mandarin, Lemon, Lime, Black boy peach, plums, almonds, blueberries, raspberries, grapes. and there is a grove of 100 fijoa trees at the bottom of the drive that rains fijoas every season...

Looking at moving back later this year to live.

:)

Not quite enough for a house yet but getting there.
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by rhyso.

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5 years 4 months ago #531287 by tonybaker
Replied by tonybaker on topic City to Isolation
that's great news Rhyso, you have done well! Sounds like you have a nice range of fruits there, even blueberries. I am trying to grow these in grow bags to see if it is easier to give them the special soil conditions they need. Feijoas - I tried to make wine out of them but did not have much flavour. Pigs like them though.
Keep up the good work and I hope some sort of dwelling is going to happen for you.....

5 acres, Ferguson 35X and implements, Hanmay pto shredder, BMW Z3, Countax ride on mower, chooks, Dorper and Wiltshire sheep. Bosky wood burning central heating stove and radiators. Retro caravan. Growing our own food and preserving it. Small vineyard, crap wine. :)

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5 years 4 months ago #531299 by rhyso
Replied by rhyso on topic City to Isolation
Hi Tony,

The reason I planted them in the first place, is that I was told the soil on our land is slightly alkaline and perfect for blueberries. I have not bothered with testing the soil yet as I only get limited time there.

Fingers crossed everything is happy, they all get organic fertilizer once a year and I will prune and thin when they become established enough.

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5 years 4 months ago #531301 by Anakei
Replied by Anakei on topic City to Isolation

rhyso wrote: Hi Tony,

The reason I planted them in the first place, is that I was told the soil on our land is slightly alkaline and perfect for blueberries. I have not bothered with testing the soil yet as I only get limited time there.

Fingers crossed everything is happy, they all get organic fertilizer once a year and I will prune and thin when they become established enough.


Err.... my understanding is that blueberries prefer an acidic soil between and 4 and 5. I've heard of advice to add peat, sulphur or even a vinegar solution to the soil to make the soil more acidic. They like moisture retentive soil as well so two ticks for peat as an amendment,

Urban mini farmer and guerilla gardener

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