East London to Christchurch Newbies

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11 years 6 months ago #366335 by Ruth

Seaside;357578 wrote: Is there anywhere that is particularly secure? Wellington (earthquake central) or Auckland (the city of volcanos)? Mind you, I'd take an earthquake over floods like Brisbane had any day.

So many places between and beyond those examples!

I feel reasonably safe from earthquakes, for example. The nearest likely volcano region is far enough away that a small one wouldn't have direct consequences, unless it takes out public infrastructure, which of course it might - roads, power, etc.

Flooding is more of an issue in many places now than it ever seems to have been before, and care in property choice is necessary in that regard. Anything on the side of a steep hill has risks.

Ideally you'd live somewhere at a reasonable height above sea level, on a plateau which isn't volcanic, with reliable running water from within a rocky hill upon which you don't live, and which isn't likely to fall to bits with excess rain or earth movement ... And with shelter from cyclones. :D

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11 years 6 months ago #366349 by Seaside

Ruth;357581 wrote: So many places between and beyond those examples!

I feel reasonably safe from earthquakes, for example. The nearest likely volcano region is far enough away that a small one wouldn't have direct consequences, unless it takes out public infrastructure, which of course it might - roads, power, etc.

Flooding is more of an issue in many places now than it ever seems to have been before, and care in property choice is necessary in that regard. Anything on the side of a steep hill has risks.

Ideally you'd live somewhere at a reasonable height above sea level, on a plateau which isn't volcanic, with reliable running water from within a rocky hill upon which you don't live, and which isn't likely to fall to bits with excess rain or earth movement ... And with shelter from cyclones. :D

Not to mention far enough away from a main road so that a truck doesn't crash into your house, and not in a take-off/landing zone of an airport in case a plane lands on your roof (it has happened!) :eek:

I love the beach and lived in South Brighton for several years, but I sleep easier these days (being a long way from one) because I suffer from recurring nightmares of tsunamis. Well, I still get the dreams, but I don't stay awake trying to remember where I've put the kids' life jackets.

Kids, beasts, and chillies in Swannanoa South.
www.farmaway.co.nz

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11 years 6 months ago #366354 by Andrea1

Seaside;357600 wrote: ...because I suffer from recurring nightmares of tsunamis. Well, I still get the dreams, but I don't stay awake trying to remember where I've put the kids' life jackets.


OK, now I don't think I'm weird any more! It would appear I'm in good company! I love the sea, but really paranoid about tsunamis... still worry, irrationally or not, about my whole family in Chch every week day...

(sorry to hijack the thread...)[:I]

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11 years 6 months ago #366356 by Seaside

Andrea;357605 wrote: OK, now I don't think I'm weird any more! It would appear I'm in good company! I love the sea, but really paranoid about tsunamis... still worry, irrationally or not, about my whole family in Chch every week day...

(sorry to hijack the thread...)[:I]

It used to be whirlwind nightmares - too much Wizard of Oz! I think the tsunami nightmares took over when I moved to NZ (1998) - the horror of the Boxing Day tsunami kind of confirmed my fears. I do have plane crash (in our paddock), earthquake, plummeting elevators, children falling off cliff or running into traffic nightmares every now and then for a bit of variety, but the tsunamis get me. When awake, I scan the horizon whenever we're at the beach and always have a 'plan' in case I spot a wall of water. Logically, I know road accidents are a much greater risk, but logic and emotion don't always play nicely. So, no, you are not weird. Or at least, there are two of us if you are.

PS Sorry too for hijacking, but I suppose it keeps the thread alive while you're asleep in (east of) London.

On that subject, I lived and worked for some years in South West London (Kingston) and studied at Hatfield Poly (close enough to Southend to go there for a bracing beach stroll and watch the boy racers after the pubs closed). On a good weekend, we'd drive for hours to look for a space on the packed beach at Studland Bay to sunbathe. When I moved here, my Kiwi mates told me that the beach in ChCh was "windy and covered in rubbish". Oh, and they said it was "sandy", like that's a bad thing. They couldn't understand why I wanted to live there. The "rubbish" was driftwood and seaweed. Having lived in the UK, I knew how lucky we are with our beautiful beaches here.

Kids, beasts, and chillies in Swannanoa South.
www.farmaway.co.nz

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11 years 6 months ago #366359 by Ruth
When I was a child we lived always by or on the sea - weeks in a small yacht with my father every summer and every weekend throughout the year. He'd lived in Tonga for a while as well. He had tales of Tsunami which I can't specifically remember, but I've always had a vague fear of huge water movement like that. Then came Boxing Day 2004 (hard to believe it was that long ago!) and with all those pictures and the thought of close family who by chance weren't there at the time, it all seemed so much more real and frightening. Some of us are prone to such fears, whether they're realistic or not. I don't go easily to the beach these days, but I don't think about it much when I'm enjoying being there.

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11 years 6 months ago #366403 by eastendoflondon

Seaside;357577 wrote: Hi EEoL

It's just an educated guess, I could be entirely wrong. All I know is that many people with large claims (like our friends) are still waiting for a decision from their insurance company before they can start building or sell up. Some of those people will be keen to move away from the areas that experienced serious liquifaction, like the Brooklands and Spencerville areas. Others love the area and community so much they would never leave. The other thing is that people are being told not to fix anything yet because we are likely to have aftershocks for some time yet - probably the rest of the year.

Man, that place is a mess at the moment, though they have been working hard to fix it. A 30km speed limit along the populated parts of Lower Styx Road and huge bumps - like sleeping policemen - as you drive along. The earthquake created lots of 'sand volcanos', the manhole covers in the middle of the road were lifted up onto sand columns - some about a metre high. Very scary for our friend driving to our place, worried about a tsunami, at 4.40am because there was no information on where the epicentre was at that point. He was dodging metre-high manhole covers through a frosty windscreen in the pitch dark (no power, no street lights). And the small bridge was out, so cars had to drive through a culvert to get out of Brooklands (going north).

Do you know the new subdivision off Lower Styx, the one where they extended the lagoon? Last year, houses started to be built on there and there were quite a few brand new houses. One family had just moved into their house on the day before the earthquake and their house is a write off. That subdivision was particularly hard hit because the land had been built up with top soil that hadn't settled. Apparently Pegasus Village fared much better because they did special land works to protect against earthquakes.

Something I remembered about Woodend (we tried to find a lifestyle block there before we bought this place four and a half years ago) is that they are looking at building a bypass. I think the favoured route at this point in time is slightly east of SH1 - the place we almost bought along Woodend Beach Road would have been within metres of one of the proposed routes. If you google Woodend bypass you should be able to find more details, perhaps on the Waimakariri Council website?

Hi there,yes we have thoroughly investigated the bypass.We are willing to take a risk that if we buy in East Woodend that the short eastern option may go ahead but in light of the recent earthquakes i don't think the funds will be available for such a large bypass anytime in the next 20 to 30 years.If the NZTA do go ahead with the bypass option instead of "4 laning" the existing road they will haveto compensate the land owners that may have their properties affected so any improvements we make will be reimbursed and that's a worse case scenario.From what i understand the majority of businesses that are in Woodend area would prefer the "4 laning" option as a bypass would take away much needed passing trade.I must admit that when i was there a few weeks back the road did seem quite dangerous.
We had a look through the Pegasus site and it's very nice(for a subdivision) as you drive in but it seems that there are still a lot of house/land packages up for sale.Agree that there wasn't any earthquake damage that i noticed.We would look to use similar building techniques if we bought in the Woodend area and i would hope a geotech report would show up any potential foundation issues.
Tsunamis do come into my mind but then so do terrorists / drink drivers / floods / volcanos / earthquakes.....see where i'm going here :) The future is what it is whatever that may be!
I'm interested in your views on people looking to sell up towards the end of 2011.Maybe we would be better off waiting until then before buying land?
Saying that we wouldn't want to buy an earthquake affected property.We want to build our own home so that's a non-starter.

Cheers
EEol.

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11 years 5 months ago #366475 by TKFARMER
With regards to compensation for you property you would only get currant market value.If you property is taken for roading you will not make a killing out of the govt or council. tkf

Playing farmer on 3.5 acres. [:)][:)]

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11 years 5 months ago #366519 by Seaside
Agreed - Pegasus is a residential subdivision, not a rural subdivision. I expect there are many caveats, even if the section sizes were larger - no pigs, no caravans, no roosters, that sort of thing. Waikuku would be the nearest rural sections to Pegasus.

I would keep looking throughout the year because who really knows what will happen to property and land sales around here. All I know is that there's a lot of people in limbo at the moment while they wait for the final word from their insurance company. For those with houses that need rebuilding, they will have to choose between building on their existing section, or selling the land and building elsewhere. Either way, any insured property would, in theory, be made right in terms of land remediation (under the insurance), whether or not the current owner stays or goes.

It's an unprecedented situation for all of us. Hard to make any cast iron predictions.

Kids, beasts, and chillies in Swannanoa South.
www.farmaway.co.nz

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11 years 5 months ago #366535 by eastendoflondon
Hi TKF,
That's what we would expect to get if the property got taken for roading.IE If the land costs $300k + $600k for the house and improvements we would expect to get back $900k.Ofcourse indexation and inflation would haveto be taken into account.The NZD is a lot stronger now then it was 10 years ago.The last thing we would want to do is take money away from the govt as i'm sure they need it for other interests.
Hi Seaside,
We are quite interested in Woodend as according to the EQC website there hasn't been any heavy damage in that area as oppose to Brooklands / Kaiapoi.

We are a long way off even making an offer yet though as we need to establish how much money the bank will give us first :)

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11 years 5 months ago #366537 by LongRidge
TKF, I suspect that the Public Works Act may still be in legislation. If so, then your land can be taken without compensation if you make too much of a problem for the public work.

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11 years 5 months ago #366546 by eastendoflondon

LongRidge;357809 wrote: TKF, I suspect that the Public Works Act may still be in legislation. If so, then your land can be taken without compensation if you make too much of a problem for the public work.


Hi Longridge

Now this "Public Works Act" is very interesting and a showstopper.

Thanks.

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11 years 5 months ago #366558 by kate
I don't think your land can be taken without compensation under the PWA. They have to compensate you and I think it has to be a fair market value but they can do it without your consent if they have to....

Web Goddess

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11 years 5 months ago #366582 by eastendoflondon
Hi Kate, I did a little bit of research and agree that if land has to be taken by the 'crown' the freeholder must be compensated for the govt valuation. Obviously that includes improvements to the land. Back in the game :)

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11 years 5 months ago #366671 by Seaside
You probably already know this, but "government valuation" in the NZ property market does not always equal the market value. It is a snapshot of a land and improvement valuation at a particular point in time. The actual value (if the place were put on the market) is likely to be different. The way things are right now, people are lucky to get the govt valuation. Some years ago (2005 for example), the govt valuation could be considerably less than the market value.

So if you had bought your slice of land in 2008 and the government was compulsorily purchasing it today, you'd be pleased. If you had bought it in 2002 and the government took it off you it in 2008, you may feel hard done by.

Kids, beasts, and chillies in Swannanoa South.
www.farmaway.co.nz

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11 years 5 months ago #366690 by eastendoflondon
Of the 78 local authorities in New Zealand, 77 reassess the government values every three years. Only one, Wellington, carries out the assessment annually.
If you have some spare time for a read:

Capital Value

Is the price that would have been paid for the property if it had sold at the date recorded as the
assessment date. For all intents and purposes it is the same as Market Value (minus chattels). Capital
value specifically excludes chattels, stocks, crops, and machinery, goodwill or plantation trees.

Land Value

The price that would have been paid for just the land as at the valuation date. The land value includes any
development work which may have been carried out, such as, draining, excavation, filling, retaining walls,
and reclamation, grading, levelling, clearing of vegetation, fertility build-up, or protection from erosion or
flooding.

Value of Improvements

This is the difference between the capital and land values. It reflects the additional value given to the land
by any buildings, other structures or cropping trees, vines, and any landscaping that adds value to the
land.

A local council also have the option of using Annual Value as a basis for levying rates. Annual Value is the
greater value of either the estimated gross annual rental less 20% (or 10% if there are no buildings on the
land) or 5% of the property’s Capital Value.

How accurate are RVs?

A common refrain by building owners and purchasers is how much above GV (RV) do houses sell in this
location? If you use this as a measure of value, there is an implicit assumption that the RV is uniformly
accurate.

The facts are:
  • The properties are rarely inspected.
  • Values are mainly computer generated, primarily using a mass appraisal technique known as
    multiple regression.
  • The primary aim of RVs is to provide a uniform platform for rates. Properties are to be valued as
    unencumbered. This can lead to big anomalies in values. This is particularly so in commercial
    properties where the effect of leasing is to be ignored.
  • Upgrading of individual properties can be overlooked, particularly if the upgrading work did not
    require the owners to file for a building consent.
  • All statistical processes which derive values have inherent inaccuracies. There is an automatic
    expectation that a percentage of all assessments will be incorrect. The objection process is the
    safety net to catch such errors. It assumes that the property owner receiving an inaccurate
    assessment will automatically object. However many councils levy rates based on capital value,
    so the higher the RV the higher the rates demanded. It benefits some owners to keep their RVs
    low, assuming that they don’t intend to sell any time soon. On the other hand, if the householder
    has a short term ambition to sell, it pays to try and force the value in the other direction. Therefore
    relative value inaccuracies between some properties are perpetuated over time.
  • There is a time issue to consider, particularly when there is a three year gap between
    assessments. The values become less relevant as time moves on from assessment date.
What happens if you disagree with your RV?
You will be sent a notice of your new RV. If you disagree with the assessed amount, there is a date
indicated at the back of the form within which time your objection must be lodged.

You have two possible avenues at your disposal:
  • Lodge the objection yourself before the required date indicating your reasons for disputing the
    assessment. The reasons must be relevant from a valuation perspective. It could be something
    like you had a new kitchen installed and you don’t believe that this has been taken into
    consideration. But whatever your logic, it must be factual.
  • Employ a registered valuation company who will provide you with a written
    valuation. This will carry much more weight than the DIY approach.

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