PDA

View Full Version : Rat poison with no secondary poisoning risk?


pataka
7th March 2010, 02:16 PM
Is there such a thing? We have scurrying going on in the attic - and although I really dont want to put any poison out - if there is one which wont kill the cats if they managed to catch the sick rat, then I could be forced to use that.

red2140
7th March 2010, 02:42 PM
I use Racumin sachets, which states no secondary poisoning or something to that fact. My cats and dogs often catch and eat the rats around the chook house and have never gotten sick. Check RD1 or Farmlands to see what it says. I swear by it as the rats and mice love it, and gobble it up. I have used other types but they seldom touch it. Just make sure you attach it to something so they cant drag it off to the nest.

Yo Man
7th March 2010, 04:19 PM
If you google Racumin you get to the Yates website:
http://www.yates.co.nz/products/pest-control/rats-mice-and-household-pests/racumin-rat-and-mouse-paste/

Note it says 'reduced possibility of secondary poisoning ...', not that it can't happen.

Then further down its states:

"Precautions
Hazardous to children, pets, birds and wildlife. Place baits where they are inaccessible to children, animals or birds."

and

"If consumed by animal, consult vet immediately, vitamin K1 is antidotal".

Be careful !!

Pumpkingirl
7th March 2010, 04:23 PM
I too have used Racumin's little sachets with great success because the chance of secondary poisoning is low (http://www.yates.co.nz/products/pest-control/rats-mice-and-household-pests/racumin-rat-and-mouse-paste/) (but still possible).

Like most poisons, keep it out of areas where children and pets might access it, and keep replacing bait for up to four weeks, depending on your infestation.

For absolutely no chance of secondary poisoning, there is Kiwicare's Natural No Rats (http://kiwicare.co.nz/index.cfm/1,103,0,0,html/Natural-NO-Rats), although personally I found the rats weren't as interested in this bait as they were in the Racumin.

However, I suspect an enclosed area, with no other food sources readily available may mean it becomes a much more palatable option. Where I was poisoning the rats had lots of food options, so didn't have to eat it if they didn't want to.

This company also offers a Pindone rat bait (http://www.nopests.co.nz/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=40&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=69) that it says has no secondary poisoning either.

beedee
7th March 2010, 04:58 PM
I bought that Natural NO rats by kiwicare last year and carefully put it out.. but the rats read it as NO for rats and never ate it.. it did say to take all food away, well excuse me I was not going to look for another shed to put the meal in.. but did make it first in line if they were interested.. will put it in sheds that are kept closed most of the time .. otherwise I expect the 5 x felines to do their work this April.
that seems a more natural way!!!

witheze
7th March 2010, 05:21 PM
My vet recommended Racumin to me and have had no disasters. My rats were not interested in the natural stuff either!

cowvet
7th March 2010, 06:19 PM
I can't recall every treating a known secondary poisoning regardless of what has been used. All poisonings I have treated has been direct ingestion of the toxin, ie, the animals have always had access to the poison.

My gut logic to explain this would be to consider the body size difference between species of rodent and something that might eat that rodent. The rat/mouse would have to eat more than it probably physically could for the cat/dog to get a lethal dose from eating a single poisoned mouse etc.....or the cat/dog would have to eat numerous poisoned rodents over a number of days.

4trees
7th March 2010, 08:54 PM
Hi, you can also use some cement powder and put some flour in it, or rolled oats, mix it up and the rats love it. It is of no interest to other animals.The rats just dehydrate or go outside to get water. Cheers.

Pest Advice
8th March 2010, 08:35 AM
Hello All,

Racumin and NO Rats & Mice bait blocks and tracking powder from Kiwicare contain the first generation anti-coagulant rodenticide coumatetralyl. Coumatetralyl has a low risk of secondary poisoning but not no risk.<o></o>
<o></o>

There is one product with no risk and that is Kiwicare's Natural NO Rats which contains no toxin at all. Natural NO Rats is BioGro certified organic. <o></o>
It works in a physiological manner. It is a cellulose that rodents do not possess a gut enzyme to digest. It causes damage to their gut and dehydration resulting in heart failure and death. Other animals such as dogs, cats, birds and humans have the enzymes and are able to consume the bait without risk other than possible indigestion.<o></o>
<o></o>

It is however not suitable for use where there is a lot of other food available to the rodents. It must be a significant proportion of the rat or mouse food intake for several days in a row.<o></o>

GrantK
8th March 2010, 08:58 AM
I use Racumin sachets, which states no secondary poisoning or something to that fact.
...
I swear by it as the rats and mice love it, and gobble it up. I have used other types but they seldom touch it. Just make sure you attach it to something so they cant drag it off to the nest.
We have this exact problem at the moment. I have tried the blue "Pestoff" blocks with the hole in the centre, inside a yellow plastic bait station, but other than a slight mark on one corner of one block, the rats aren't interested. I have also tried the "Better Rat Traps" but somehow they manage to lick the peanut butter off without triggering the trap [:(!]

Where and what do you place/attach Racumin to?

Last night in desperation to stop the scratching in our roof, I squirted oven cleaner in the direction of the nest, and we heard nothing further all night thankfully. But not exactly a long-term solution.

Any advice gratefully received.

LongRidge
8th March 2010, 09:08 AM
When my Dad was a vet, he did have some warfarin poisoning cases, but mostly from pets eating slug bait. None from secondary poisoning that I recall. We too have never had a secondary poisoning. But ......
Beside the bait station supply some water, because the poisons dehydrate the vermin. With no supplied bowl of water they eat the water pipes.

red2140
8th March 2010, 09:15 AM
Where and what do you place/attach Racumin to?

Any advice gratefully received.
I have one of those plastic rat feeders that has 2 holes for entry in it and a wire across the top that I thread the sachets thru. I also use a 2 litre ice cream container with lid and a hole for them to enter. That is nailed to a block of wood and put under chook houses or in a corner where dogs cant get to it. This way I can see the sachets are eaten and just replace as they eat it until they are no longer taking any, which usually means they are gone. I do however have it out year round as their offspring or others will eventually arrive after the other rats are killed

GrantK
8th March 2010, 09:22 AM
I have one of those plastic rat feeders that has 2 holes for entry in it and a wire across the top that I thread the sachets thru. I also use a 2 litre ice cream container with lid and a hole for them to enter. That is nailed to a block of wood and put under chook houses or in a corner where dogs cant get to it. This way I can see the sachets are eaten and just replace as they eat it until they are no longer taking any, which usually means they are gone. I do however have it out year round as their offspring or others will eventually arrive after the other rats are killed
We have a large pot of Racumin, but it is just in powder form; not contained in any sachets.

Is there any way to just use the powder in a roof space without contaminating insulation, ceilings etc?

Or do we need to buy the Racumin in sachets for use in this situation?

red2140
8th March 2010, 09:26 AM
We have a large pot of Racumin, but it is just in powder form; not contained in any sachets.

Is there any way to just use the powder in a roof space without contaminating insulation, ceilings etc?

Or do we need to buy the Racumin in sachets for use in this situation?
Probably no way to avoid contamination to the roofspace with powder, as even if you put it in a container where he canm get in and out he will be tracking it by his feed when entering/exiting. The only way would be to have an enclosed trap or box that will close after he enters. I like the sachets because they are easy to use

LongRidge
8th March 2010, 09:30 AM
Grant, I would make a place where the container can sit, attach it in place and leave the lid off. Any spillage into the insulation will be minimal. The vermins will still need a drink before they find a hidden place to die (inside the dishwasher is a good place). After a few days the carcase is dry enough to not make much smell.

GrantK
8th March 2010, 09:35 AM
Grant, I would make a place where the container can sit, attach it in place and leave the lid off. Any spillage into the insulation will be minimal. The vermins will still need a drink before they find a hidden place to die (inside the dishwasher is a good place). After a few days the carcase is dry enough to not make much smell.
Thanks LR, that sounds like a plan.

Maybe I will take the lid off the bait station and put a decent amount of power in the middle so they can climb over the sides to get it. There is a kind of trough in the rafters just above our wardrobe where the base of the bait station will sit quite nicely. It's too big for them to drag away, so I will put it there and see how it goes. Good tip about the water container -- thanks [:)]

Bunter
8th March 2010, 10:31 AM
I have used Racumin in the past in a bait station with the sachets wrapped in chicken netting so there is no way they can be dragged out. Or in a shed where the dogs cant get in - wrapped in chicken netting and wired to something. Rats are buggers at taking stuff away and storing it and if I have baits out, however safe they may be, I would like to know exactly where they are, how many are out there and who ate them.
Cant beat the DOC traps. Very satisfying to see a big dead flat rat.

GrantK
12th March 2010, 11:49 AM
We are making progress with killing off the rat in our ceiling, but slowly...

I am using 2 patches of Racumin powder inside the tunnel bait station which also has some blue "Storm Secure" blocks of bait secured on nails in the centre of the tunnel. To get to the bait blocks, the rat has to cross the patches of Racumin, and thus a two-fold purpose is served:

- I can see where he has been because the Racumin powder is purple
- He gets Racumin on his feet which he will lick off later during grooming, according to the info. on the Racumin bottle

To make it more tempting for him, I have mixed some Rolled Oats from a porridge sachet in with the Racumin powder and that seems to be going down well. I also tried putting a strip of roast pork on the nails in the centre, but that wasn't touched, which is a surprise. Again, that was something the instructions on the Racumin bottle suggested.

Here's hoping I don't need to feed him for too many more days before he kicks the bucket. So far, the water in the tray doesn't seem to have been touched at all, with just a small amount being lost each day due to evaporation. Maybe the desperate need for water doesn't kick in until later on in the process?

Whatever ... I just hope the bugger dies soon because he woke me up (again) at about 3:30am and I couldn't get back to sleep until about 5:30am, which is not what you want after a hard day's work under the house, blocking up 3 rat holes with wooden blocks and chicken wire [:(!] [:(!] [:(!]

Hawkspur
12th March 2010, 12:13 PM
I believe the desperate need for water is a desired trait in poison baits to encourage the dying rats to leave, looking for water, so that their smelly remains are not inside difficult-to-get-at parts of buildings.
There will also be a delay before the urge to drink kicks in.

pataka
13th March 2010, 09:20 PM
Thanks for all your replies and great tips!! I still feel bad about killing them - but really dont want to have to replace any electrical wiring or whatever else they might find up there to chew on!!