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TOPIC: Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications

Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 15 Jan 2007 18:07 #8347

hi Sue, I see in other posts re mites on chooks some mentions of using cattle pour ons for Lice etc on chooks. Thinking laterally, wondering if something like the topical things you use on cats and dogs for fleas etc would be effective as well on chooks?
And once you have done the chook house with insecticide for mites, and killed the hatched ones, if any eggs are still viable, how long before they all hatch and you should try and knock them off as well? ie how long is a mites life cycle?
Thanks HH
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 15 Jan 2007 22:54 #137142

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Hi HH! First of all, the products that are used to kill fleas may not kill mites and lice. Fleas are bloodsuckers, so are some mites but not all. Lice eat the skin flakes and some mites live in the shafts of feathers, or under the skicales of the legs.

Using a product specifically made for one species may not work, and may even be toxic for another. Perhaps Cowvet might be able to jump in here re the use of cat/dog treatments for birds????

Ivomec, and Eprinex, cattle pour ons can be used for mites and worms in poultry but are used 'off label' in NZ as they have not be registered with the Animal Remedies board for this purpose. The treatment level is .1 (point one) of a ml per kg bodyweight- only one or two drops, on bare skin, at the most.

Some flea podwers for chickens you have to be careful not to use on hens brooding chicks and I'm sure I have seen some cat flea powders must not be used on birds, or is it the other way round as they lick it off!?

Eggs of red mite will remain viable in an empty chook house for two years.
I believe flea eggs will last a long time too! They won't hatch until there are birds around and they sense a feed is around.

High temperatures will encourage them to hatch, so you should try and spray your insecticide on a hot day! The life cycle for Red mite is 10 days, so you probably need to do two follow up sprays two weeks apart to reduce a mite population drastically.

Once they are in your sheds you will have a really hard job to get rid of them- so you need to hit birds and house frequently. It may pay to change products as well as they can get resistant.
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 15 Jan 2007 23:57 #137147

Thanks Sue, very interesting. So are there any licensed pour on bird products available in New Zealand for the non commercial chook flocks, or is it all off label useage ?
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 08:30 #137171

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No, I am not aware of any Pour on insecticides specifically for poultry available in NZ. The use of some specific cattle Pour ons appears to be approved by some vets. Their use is approved in Australia but I believe that the costs of gaining approval versus the size of the NZ market did not warrant the costs of paper work and tests involved.

There are several powders available for individual use, Pestene is one I can think of. Some spray mixtures that can be made up with water can also be used, like Carbaryl, but there is a witholding period for eggs and meat and it may not even be still on the market.

There used to be a product called Poultry Spray, which was a Malathion based oil which was watered down to spray. We found mites got a resistance to Malathion after awhile. Garden use Malathion may still be effective if it hasn't been used on your particular mite population.

There are still some effective insecticdes like Ripcord, and some used for killing insect life in grain silos, Actellic I think was one we tried.
Some are better sprayed when the shed is empty for awile after cleaning. Ripcord can be used with birds and equipment in place, for instance when you want to spray the 2 week follow up treatments.

I imported a trial shipment of a garlic based product. It included oil which could be sprayed and granules which could be scattered or fed. The data said it had given great results at reducing populations overseas. We trialled it on a large farm with 3 x 5000 bird sheds. One with garlic spray and granules alongside what was normally done. The results were no better and neither completely worked. It was less hazardous for the staff to spray, but boy did the shed pong of garlic!

Other trialls have been the use of diatomacious (sp) earth, which can be blown as a fine dust into a shed, and used in the litter where the birds dust bathe. This kills by bruising the exoskeleton of the mite and it dehydrates. I think it was called Decimite or similar.

I am a bit out of touch with any new products but there may be something around. Trouble with NZ is that it is such a small market that overseas products are not licensed for use here, unless a large customer decides the effort to import is worth the costs involved.

By the way I am not aware there is any difference between products available for commercial and non commercial poultry! The only drawback might be the size of the packaging and its cost! Many of the remedies may be vet only or hazardous chemicals.
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 16:45 #137216

Thanks Sue, very thorough and informative as usual!
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 16:56 #137218

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I think Sue should put together all of her responses, and there are heaps of them!! There are times Sue when you must repeat yourself quite a bit.

Kate can't some of those excellent answers be put in the lifestyle files somewhere.
If Sue was to briefly cover the basics such as worming...a frequent question, and other things like why they go off the lay etc, my hens laid a funny egg etc etc, it would save Sue a lot of typing!! ;)

Same must got for Cowvet and the 5 in 1 question...lol!

Just an idea.

Would be easier for them to say take a look at this link!!
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 18:09 #137226

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OH has just sprayed the houses today. Ideally I would have dosed the chooks this morning too but I had to work. Tomorrow at dawn they will all get a dose of Eprinex under the wing or back of the neck. I have a friend who just gives them a dab with a pastry brush which seems easier than drawing up tiny amounts into a syringe.

Sue - are only chooks host to the grey mite they carry. Some of our broodies will tuck themselves away in the back of the goat houses and in this hot weather I wonder if the mites might prefer the goats.
Caprina
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 18:48 #137231

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The mites that you refer to as grey, are actually called Red Mite or Dermaiyssus gallinae. The grey dust is actually the larva, eggs and empty adults. They become red when full of blood.
They only affect chicknes and other poultry as well as wild birds. I think the skin of mammals, such as humans and goats is too thick for them to bite through! The mites will live in the back of the goat house alright, but feed on the broodies.

The pastry brush sounds a bit of overkill to get one drop!!
Even an eye dropper would be better. I would imagine dipping a cotton bud in the stuff and dabbing on the skin would be preferable than overdosing with a brush full!
Remember it is cattle strength treatment you are using and 1ml treats 10 kgs of cow. I would imagine a pastry brush would easily hold 2 or 3mls or more, enough for 20 chickens or more!
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 21:06 #137255

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I don't want to under dose either Sue. For years I have dosed to the beak with Ivomec and used the powder if necessary. I have Eprinex pour on hand at the moment from treating calves. Would you think 5cc for a large bird Australorp Faverolle etc was to large a dose and half that for bantams. Would a dip with a baby bud do it? Where best under wing or back of neck. We are talking 100 plus chooks here so most effective.

Thanks for your help.
Caprina
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 21:51 #137263

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You can buy tiny syringes that measure 0.1 increments. If you weigh the bird and use this type of small syringe, you can get an accurate measurement to put on the skin, under the bird's wing (in the armpit). This would be a safe way of dosing them. Its NOT meant to be given by mouth (beak).
135 acres in Bay of Islands, including around 90 acres of Native Bush.
13 Dexter cows,
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New Hampshire Red poultry & Dorking poultry.
Pilgrim Geese, Appleyard Ducks.
Gotland Sheep and Polled Wiltshire Sheep.
LOTS of wild birds incl. 10 Kiwi and lots of Weka. We also have frogs and a Heading Dog called Lad.
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 16 Jan 2007 22:29 #137279

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THE DOSE OF EPRINEX POUR-ON IS .1 (POINT ONE!)PER KILOGRAM BODYWEIGHT

THAT IS ONE DROP PER KG. AT THE MOST, 2-3 DROPS FOR FULL SIZE CHOOKS, 1 FOR BANTAMS

If you are treating 100kgs of calf, you use 10ml, not half a cup full. Just as important with chickens, even more so, as their skin is very thin and there will be no run off.

Sorry to shout but some peoples estimates of dose rates are way out of line.

A large breed type hen like an Australorp, Orpington or RIR, might weigh 2 to 3 kgs, A hybrid like a Shaver 2kg, a bantam 1kg. Please weigh your birds first, somehow.
5cc is way too much.

If it is a pour on- put it on the skin, not the feathers on its back!
If it is oral as some ivomec treatments are, drop it in its beak, don't put it in the water.
If it is injectable ivermectin, don't use it.

Some vets may prescribe other forms of treatment. Follow the instructions!
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 17 Jan 2007 17:16 #137445

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Sorry Sue - end of a busy day. No wonder you shouted[:I] It's these damn decimal points. Using a tuberculin syringe .10 equates to 3 drops. I think an eye dropper may be the way to go, rather than drawing up such a tiny amount x 100 chooks.

Inger I've used Ivomec oral to the beak for years and never lost a chook yet. I just discard the eggs and we don't eat the girls. Nevertheless it's a job I hate. I'm new to pour on for the chooks and thought it might be an easier option. From what I've read Eprinex has a lesser withholding period too. Do you use pour on for your chooks or another method[?] I'm always keen to learn of better ways:)
Caprina
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Sue- poultry / mites/lice medications 17 Jan 2007 22:15 #137512

Sue -

The Diatomaceous Earth tip is a good one. I don't know if there are any good sources for it here in NZ, but back in the states I had a mate who cleaned swimming pools. He would replace the "sand" in the filters from time to time and bring me the dregs left in the sacks. Nice, clean DE. I dumped it in the corner of the pen where the hens had their dust pit and never had any significant trouble with mites, fleas or ticks. My dogs, on the other hand....:-(
First rule of holes: When you're in one, stop digging.
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