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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 07:47 #30753

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This forum was created by NAIT Ltd in cooperation with Kate, the editor of lifestyleblock.co.nz.

The aim of this forum is to offer lifestylers an opportunity to ask questions about NAIT directly with NAIT. NAIT representatives will reply to the questions on a regular basis.

From 1 July (2012) the National Animal Identification and Tracing (NAIT) scheme will be mandatory for all cattle, and from 1 March 2013 for all deer. From these dates anyone in charge of cattle or deer, including lifestylers, will need to undertake NAIT obligations to comply with the law. These obligations include: tagging your cattle and deer with NAIT-approved RFID ear tags, registering with NAIT to get your NAIT number, registering your cattle or deer with NAIT and recording all off-farm movements of cattle and deer with NAIT.

The NAIT database will store information about each animal’s individual RFID number, its location, and the contact details of the person in charge of the animal. The database will meet animal tracing requirements for New Zealand in a way that is consistent with the guidelines of the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE). This will enable New Zealand to response to a biosecurity thread as fast as possible and to therefore minimize the impact it will have on New Zealand’s economy.

NAIT Ltd will limit access to, use and disclosure of NAIT data to the purposes stated in the NAIT legislation. NAIT data will be kept private as required by the Privacy Act.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 07:48 #414469

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So...any questions?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 11:10 #414489

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1.Will the visible numbers on my AHB tags be able to be correlated to the invisible numbers on the NAIT tags? If I quote the visible number to NAIT or AHB about some stock I have got off the road, will they be able to tell me who those stock belong to?
2. AHB can only tell me who originally tagged the stock. Will they or NAIT be able to tell me who now owns those stock?
3. When must the animals be tagged by? If by some age, then how will that be policed, and who will pay for this? If by some age, why if the animals are going to stay in my care for their entire life, or at least until they get onto a truck?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 11:11 #414490

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does this mean that if we take Cattle off farm to an A&P show for example and bring them back after the show ... that these movements have to be recorded every time we go to a show ?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 11:17 #414492

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If I'm sending yearlings to the sales next week, do they need NAIT tags? They have AHB tags.

If I don't need NAIT tags yet, when is the last date for selling without them?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 11:18 #414494

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What happens to stock already NAIT tagged which have been sold prior to July 1st. Is the purchaser responsible for listing them, and if they have already been killed at the works, yet I still have these numbers recorded against my farm how do we record their fate.

Is there a point/date where we list all cattle on our property NAIT tagged or not?

I have traka tags to tag older breeding cows who already have AHB tags-can I leave tagging these cows with these randomly numbered NAIT tags until they leave the property-eg old cows and bulls going to the works? They already have up to 3 tags in their ears, plus a tattoo which will be unreadable with another tag in the centre of the tattoo.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 12:05 #414503

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Just in case anyone else wondered what OIE actually stands for when it patently doesn't correlate with the World Organsiation of Animal Health, it's the Office International des Epizooties (OIE).
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 12:13 #414505

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Do I have to tag a cow who will remain on the property her whole life?
Some people are so poor, all they have is money.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 14:54 #414529

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Here are my questions:
  • What will happen with all the NAIT Tags we used prior to the 1st of July? We sold a number of cattle already. The NAIT Tags are assigned to our NAIT Account but the tags (animals) are not transferred to the new owners. Will we have to do some sort of inventory on the 1st of July?
  • Many of our friends and neighbors wouldn't even know how to switch on a computer. How would they use NAIT? They can't use an Excel spreadsheet for their NAIT Numbers etc.
  • Again, many of our neighbors don't own cattle but let someone graze their property. People we talked to are not aware at this stage that they even have to register. "But we do not own any cattle" is their reply. They do not read the usual farmers newspaper etc. Many are completely unaware. How will NAIT make sure that these people get adequate training and are aware of their responsibilities?
  • NAIT Tags have a runnning number i.e. No. 35, No. 36 etc. I assume we will have to update the data and identify animals using the combination of our NAIT Acct number and the running number. I.e. NAIT Acct No 1234567 + 35 would identify this animal. What if we buy an animal which has number 35 but is assigned to the seller's NAIT account? How can we, who do not have a RFID Reader make sure we enter the correct number into the system?
My understanding is that the sole purpose of NAIT is to be able to know exactly how many animals are wherea t any point in time. I am especially worried about the fact that already many animals were sold and will be sold prior to 1st of July having a NAIT tag but are not updated in the NAIT database. My feeling is that NAIT will already start with inconsistent data. Being a software engineer I know how the quality of a service suffers if the (initial) data is in an inconsistent state.

Thank you Kate for providing this brilliant platform to ask our questions. And thanks NAIT for spending time to answer them!

Cheers

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 15:10 #414533

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I have some 50 odd yearlings most with nait tags, these cattle were brought as weaners and I have no idea what numbers etc are on these tags. Do I have to get each animals tag number etc and then write them down and pass this onto you?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 16:33 #414545

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LongRidge;411084 wrote: 1.Will the visible numbers on my AHB tags be able to be correlated to the invisible numbers on the NAIT tags? If I quote the visible number to NAIT or AHB about some stock I have got off the road, will they be able to tell me who those stock belong to?

If you have bought a birth ID set of primary and secondary pair of tags, yes. The electronic RFID (radio frequency identification device) tag will be linked in the NAIT system to the visual secondary tag. NAIT will know the link when tags are bought as the RFID and linked visual are uploaded to NAIT from the manufacturer producing the tag. On linked birth ID tags you can inform NAIT of either the visual birth ID number or the RFID number.

NAIT cannot tell you who the stock are registered to directly because the Privacy Act prevents that. However, if you contact NAIT, we are able to contact the registered person of the stock and tell them where the stock is and who has them.
LongRidge;411084 wrote:
2. AHB can only tell me who originally tagged the stock. Will they or NAIT be able to tell me who now owns those stock?

No. The NAIT scheme is not about ownership of stock or ownership of land. It is about the location of animals and who the person in charge of animals (PICA) is at that location. NAIT does not record ownership information.
LongRidge;411084 wrote:
3. When must the animals be tagged by? If by some age, then how will that be policed, and who will pay for this? If by some age, why if the animals are going to stay in my care for their entire life, or at least until they get onto a truck?

From 1 July 2012, all cattle will need to be tagged with an RFID tag if they leave the property. The person in charge of animals (PICA) needs to ensure they have the tags before they move. Any calves born after 1 July 2012 will need to be tagged either before their first off-farm movement or within 180 days of birth, which ever is sooner. Animals are easier to tag and handle when they are young rather than older adult animals.

These animals then have to be registered with NAIT so NAIT has a record they exist even if they do not move off the property for their lifetime. NAIT not only records movements of animals but will also provide data on what animals are on what properties at a given point in time.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 16:39 #414547

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Stu_R;411085 wrote: does this mean that if we take Cattle off farm to an A&P show for example and bring them back after the show ... that these movements have to be recorded every time we go to a show ?

Yes. Each movement needs to be recorded from your NAIT number to the show which will also have a NAIT number for the event, and back again. In the case of a biosecurity alert it will be necessary that NAIT is informed about any animal movement to track back where the animals have been and with which other individual animals they may have come in contact with.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 16:40 #414548

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Anne;411087 wrote: If I'm sending yearlings to the sales next week, do they need NAIT tags? They have AHB tags.

If I don't need NAIT tags yet, when is the last date for selling without them?

No, your yearlings do not need to be tagged yet with NAIT approved RFID tags if they are going to the sales next week. The existing AHB-approved yellow primary barcoded tags are fine to use until 1 July 2012 . Use of NAIT-approved RFID ear tags and movement recording is mandatory from 1 July 2012 for cattle and from 1 March 2013 for deer. However, we advise you to tag young animals as it is easier than tagging full grown animals.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 17:08 #414561

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Sue;411089 wrote: What happens to stock already NAIT tagged which have been sold prior to July 1st. Is the purchaser responsible for listing them, and if they have already been killed at the works, yet I still have these numbers recorded against my farm how do we record their fate.

As animals registration starts on 1 July 2012 all animals sold prior to this date will have to be registered by the purchaser following 1 July. All animals killed before 1 July will not need to be registered.
Sue;411089 wrote:
Is there a point/date where we list all cattle on our property NAIT tagged or not?

Yes, the date to register all NAIT RFID tagged cattle is from 1 July 2012. For deer it is 1 March 2013.
Sue;411089 wrote:
I have traka tags to tag older breeding cows who already have AHB tags-can I leave tagging these cows with these randomly numbered NAIT tags until they leave the property-eg old cows and bulls going to the works? They already have up to 3 tags in their ears, plus a tattoo which will be unreadable with another tag in the centre of the tattoo.

There is a three-year exemption from 1 July 2012 for existing stock which does not move off your property. If any do move off however they will need NAIT RFID tags so YES you can just tag cattle as they move off-farm to the works. After the three years is up you will need to round up all remaining animals and tag and register them with NAIT against your NAIT number you get when you register for NAIT. And yes everyone with cattle will have to be registered with NAIT.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 17:10 #414562

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thevarneys;411100 wrote: Do I have to tag a cow who will remain on the property her whole life?

Yes, every cow needs to be tagged and registered. Full coverage of animal existence is necessary to ensure fast reactions in case of a biosecurity alert. New born calves from 1 July 2012 need to be tagged within 180 days of birth or before their first off-farm movement which ever comes sooner. For existing cattle as of 1 July 2012, there is a three-year exemption from tagging cattle if they don't move off the property. After this time expires all cattle regardless of age or production use will need to be tagged with NAIT RFID tags.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 18:41 #414575

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Thank you for the answers :)
Makes things a little easier to understand now
5 retired Greyhounds ( Bridgette , Lilly, GoGo,Sam and now Lenny) 15 friendly sheep all of whom are named and come when you call them :) , 2 goats, Mollie and Eee Bee :
Olive trees , .. old bugger doing the best he can with no money or land :)
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 19:04 #414582

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We lease land for cattle grazing.

Our present land lease agreement states;

As the owner of the cattle (the “owner”), you accept responsibility for all aspects of animal welfare, including pasture management, and associated regulatory requirements and records for the keeping of livestock, as well as liability for any damages to person(s), other livestock and/or property as might be caused by the cattle being grazed on the land.

Is this adequate in terms of our obligations under the Act?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 19:47 #414587

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1. Most countries do not have many vectors for exotic diseases, but NZ has a huge number other than farmed animals. If a disease is found in our/any area, how is tagging our animals going to control those feral vectors?
2. Some meat works have extremely good stock control. Alliance in Stoke can pay me for my 3 animals (sheep) from the thousands that they process on that day. Other Companies have not been anywhere near as good at stock control of my animals. Why am I having to risk my life, and pay extra money, performing this tagging operation when the any disease outbreak is most likely to be found at a meat works? Surely the meat Companies should get their stock contol in order before we undertake this unnecessary and expensive task? If Alliance can do it with sheep, then why the heck can other meat companies not do it with beef? And because Alliance can do it, then I don't need to be bothered with this expensive and perhaps dangerous tagging procedure, with my sheep. So why do I need to bother with my cattle and deer?
3. Following from above, the carcase is going to lose it's tag at the skinning stage. What assurance can you give us that every meat company has systems in place to make the tagging exercise worthwhile? If you cannot, then surely this scheme is as doomed as the AHB scheme is.
4. My calves are pretty feisty little beggars, and I'm getting old. Is NAIT going to pay my doctors visit costs when I'm injured tagging them? Our land is not flat dairy pasture with 3 electric wires holding the cattle in. Because the ground is steep and rough there are trees and weeds in the way that catch ear tags, and old or new fences that rip them out too. I cannot afford 5 or 6 sets of tags for my animals, so they are not going to be tagged until they leave my ownership. If I follow the proposed law of retagging as soon as an adult animal loses it's tag, then some of my breeding animals are going to need to be tagged 5 times. By this time the ear will be shredded. I trust that NAIT is not going to make me a criminal by not causing my animals to undergo this kind of stress?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Feb 2012 23:39 #414639

How do we register for NAIT:( I have a herd number and my animals are (mostly) tagged. I assumed that my AHB registration would be transferred to the new NAIT system but what I'm reading above does not gel with that.
How much are the tags if I am buying in small volumes (say 10 at a time)? I dutifully had my calves tagged to find at least 2 of them had lost one tag each and left a large "slot" in the ear they had ripped them out of :(
I don't want to have to buy new tags as the herd/tag number belongs to the guy I bought them from, not my number. Can I just retag them with my own AHB tags or NAIT tags?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 09:51 #414666

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You say
These animals then have to be registered with NAIT so NAIT has a record they exist even if they do not move off the property for their lifetime. NAIT not only records movements of animals but will also provide data on what animals are on what properties at a given point in time.
Does that mean it is not enough to buy NAIT tags and tag the animals we also will need to register each animal even if it will never leave the farm? Or is it enough if it is tagged?

Further on
Yes. Each movement needs to be recorded from your NAIT number to the show which will also have a NAIT number for the event, and back again. In the case of a biosecurity alert it will be necessary that NAIT is informed about any animal movement to track back where the animals have been and with which other individual animals they may have come in contact with.
How will NAIT cover animals in transport? Lets say we go to a show and register the off farm movement with NAIT. We leave after we showed our animals and are on the road when a disease outbreak happens in the area the show is located. When we arrive back at the farm our first priority is and should be animal welfare. Unloading, feeding, watering and shifting back onto paddock. We might find time the next morning when we log on to the internet and update NAIT. But meanwhile the officials are running around looking for our cattle. How will this situation be covered?

Thank you

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 10:13 #414668

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Peternz, not answering your questions, but having just had a visit from some Welsh cattle breeders, who always travel with passports (the cattle that is, not the people)-well they do if they go overseas-the people not the cattle!

Their system for traceability at present includes a 6 day stand down period, in which animals have to remain on farm for 6 days before moving anywhere else-say after returning from a show. The animals passport records its movement too and from the show. UK does not have electronic tags for cattle -yet-but does have electronic tagging for sheep!

LR asked a question about risks from feral and wandering stock and how hard it would be to trace them-in Britain they have far more potential problems with an increase of several species of feral deer that wander over most of Britain, plus shared common grazing land on moors and Highland pasture and all sorts of environmental schemes- rough grazing, 'wild' ponies and cattle on common grazing amongst farmed areas eg New Forest, Dartmoor, Exmoor, and a naturally run herd of Chillingham Wild White cattle. Not to mention the Badger which is the main TB vector over there-and a protected native species.

I have just read an article in a UK farming paper where they hold up NZ's experience in reducing TB infected herds down to 80 and falling, whereas in UK it is over 5,000 and rising!

We should thank our lucky stars that farming in NZ is relatively simple!

I think that perhaps the question you ask re an outbreak occurring whilst you return home from a show-the Show Society will already have a list of names and addresses and ID of all animals entered at the show-so they would soon find you!

It is the same as animals that would be in transit around the country at the time of a disease outbreak-between farms, saleyards and slaughter houses. It would take several days to firstly identify the disease, traceback where it had started and then check all the contacts from the supposed source.

I have had some experience with potential exotic disease outbreaks in poultry, both in setting up procedures and actually putting the procedures into effect-it doesn't happen overnight-but it does happen!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 10:35 #414669

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Sue, quite correct, but most of our trading partners do not have feral pigs, possums, goats, horses etc. Pigs especially are a huge vector risk, but most of Europe do not have these as ferals, especially those we are trying to impress with this unworkable legislation.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 15:22 #414677

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No answers today - someone must have scared them away .....
Here is another one for NAIT.
The Animal Welfare Act and the Road Safety legislation is necessarily far more important than the Privacy Act. NAIT are going to be reqested to provide information about who owns stock, so that the animals can be returned to the owner in a manner safe to the animals and safe to the road users. If NAIT use the excuse that this contravenes the Privacy Act, but it leads to a road accident causing injury to animal, human or property, then I suggest that NAIT are being irresponsible, and at fault, in the cause of this accident. I suggest that NAIT must take responsibility for what is probably the only useful purpose of our tagging our animals, ie ensuring they are returned safely to their present owner.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 15:50 #414679

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LR, you seem to be perpetually concerned about wandering stock-is it a particular problem where you live?

If any stock are found wandering along our road-which is probably less than once per year, the neighbourhood usually rallies round to secure them and get them to their rightful owners without too much problem!

I see there is a white faced heifer impounded in Levin at present-with no tags- another example of people just not abiding by present AHB tagging rules.
Beware all those people who say they won't NAIT tag because the animal is going to remain on their property all its life! That excuse won't wash with NAIT!
Sue
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 16:31 #414685

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Sue;411284 wrote: LR, you seem to be perpetually concerned about wandering stock-is it a particular problem where you live?
From all accounts LR lives in a dark and evil place [;)]

Posted from here using my laptop :cool:

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 17:50 #414699

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LongRidge;411282 wrote: No answers today - someone must have scared them away .....

This website was down earlier during office hours, all questions will be answered on Monday. No worries!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 18:01 #414702

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PeterNZ;411126 wrote: 1. What will happen with all the NAIT Tags we used prior to the 1st of July? We sold a number of cattle already. The NAIT Tags are assigned to our NAIT Account but the tags (animals) are not transferred to the new owners. Will we have to do some sort of inventory on the 1st of July?

Yes, we want you to tell NAIT on 1 July 2012 what animals have been NAIT-tagged on your property. You are correct saying if you supply your AHB herd number when you register and get a NAIT number, the tags you have bought previously will be on your NAIT number account. We expect from June you will be able to see this information on your NAIT account. If you have visual birth ID sets of two tags (NAIT RFID and visual), you can read the visual number and tell NAIT which individual animals are still on your property. If you have no visual tags, you will most likely need an RFID reader to read the RFID numbers on the tags and upload the file to NAIT via computer.
PeterNZ;411126 wrote: 2. Many of our friends and neighbors wouldn't even know how to switch on a computer. How would they use NAIT? They can't use an Excel spreadsheet for their NAIT Numbers etc.

Numbers can be typed in manually however there is a paper-based form to register animals, record animal movements and record such things as deaths for those people who do not use a computer or have reliable internet. Please be aware there is a small administration fee associated with using the paper form. Completing obligations online is free. As a helpful neighbour, you can perform obligation tasks on behalf of your neighbours. This is known as a PICA delegate. A PICA delegate is registered against someone else’s NAIT number to perform transactions on their behalf.
It is also possible to transfer all NAIT information via a NAIT-accredited information provider. The first information providers are in the process of getting accreditation now. The register o accredited information providers will be listed on the NAIT website www.nait.co.nz in the next few days.
PeterNZ;411126 wrote: 3. Again, many of our neighbors don't own cattle but let someone graze their property. People we talked to are not aware at this stage that they even have to register. "But we do not own any cattle" is their reply. They do not read the usual farmers newspaper etc. Many are completely unaware. How will NAIT make sure that these people get adequate training and are aware of their responsibilities?

NAIT is about the location of animals and who is responsible for them there, not ownership of animals or land/properties. It is the responsibility of the person in charge of animals (PICA) on the property to ensure they comply with the NAIT scheme. If someone is grazing another person’s property, it is the grazing person’s responsibility to ensure that property is recorded under the NAIT number of the person in charge. NAIT will be doing all it can to create awareness of the NAIT scheme to all involved and ensure many know they will need to be part of the NAIT scheme. NAIT is getting information out through advertising and media articles (both including lifestyle publications). Information has been sent out via a direct mail to 70,000 farmers and lifestylers, and specific registration information is currently being distributed by meat processors, tag manufacturers, rural retailers and other rural organisations. In addition, the NAIT website has all the information people need about the NAIT scheme. Go to www.nait.co.nz. You can also phone our contact centre on 0800 624 843.
PeterNZ;411126 wrote: 4. NAIT Tags have a runnning number i.e. No. 35, No. 36 etc. I assume we will have to update the data and identify animals using the combination of our NAIT Acct number and the running number. I.e. NAIT Acct No 1234567 + 35 would identify this animal. What if we buy an animal which has number 35 but is assigned to the seller's NAIT account? How can we, who do not have a RFID Reader make sure we enter the correct number into the system?

There are two ways of giving an individual animal number to NAIT. Either the 16 digit RFID number e.g. 942 123456789012 or the associated unique birth ID number on any associated birth ID tag e.g 1234567 - 11 - 123 (the herd number, a year code and the animal’s management number). Yes you will need to use your NAIT number to record movements on and off your property and supply the RFID number or Birth ID number if a visual linked tag is present. The two are linked in the NAIT system so you can give NAIT either number and you will be talking about the same animal. When an animal moves from one farm/property to another the animal movement must be recording with NAIT by both parties. The animal will drop off the sending party's NAIT number and go onto the receiving party's NAIT number.
PeterNZ;411126 wrote:
Thank you Kate for providing this brilliant platform to ask our questions. And thanks NAIT for spending time to answer them!

Also many thanks to all of you for making this platform work!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 24 Feb 2012 19:51 #414708

I have 4 steers from the large farm behind us that are already tagged with the NAIT tags. Do we need to register with NAIT or does our AHB registration automatically transfer and what do we need to do with the NAIT tag numbers? These animals will be sent to the works later this year. We also have a steer from another neighbour that isnt tagged with a NAIT tag, it will be homekilled at some stage this year, will this need to be retagged if not killed before july?

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 13:19 #415001

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viki;411130 wrote: I have some 50 odd yearlings most with nait tags, these cattle were brought as weaners and I have no idea what numbers etc are on these tags. Do I have to get each animals tag number etc and then write them down and pass this onto you?

You will need to let NAIT know either the electronic RFID number (16 digits) or if a linked birth ID visual tag is associated with the white button RFID tag, then you could let NAIT know that number instead. If you had an electronic scanner you could upload a file electronically or otherwise write down the number s and manually type them when registering an animal.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 13:20 #415002

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Aria;411182 wrote: We lease land for cattle grazing.

Our present land lease agreement states;

As the owner of the cattle (the “owner”), you accept responsibility for all aspects of animal welfare, including pasture management, and associated regulatory requirements and records for the keeping of livestock, as well as liability for any damages to person(s), other livestock and/or property as might be caused by the cattle being grazed on the land.

Is this adequate in terms of our obligations under the Act?

If you are leasee of the land, you will be the person in charge of animals (PICA). If you are the person leasing the land to somebody else, and are not in charge of the animals, you do not have any NAIT obligations. This means the person in charge of animals will have obligations under the NAIT scheme not the owner of the land or the owner of stock specifically.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 13:25 #415004

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LongRidge;411188 wrote:
2. Some meat works have extremely good stock control. Alliance in Stoke can pay me for my 3 animals (sheep) from the thousands that they process on that day. Other Companies have not been anywhere near as good at stock control of my animals. Why am I having to risk my life, and pay extra money, performing this tagging operation when the any disease outbreak is most likely to be found at a meat works? Surely the meat Companies should get their stock contol in order before we undertake this unnecessary and expensive task? If Alliance can do it with sheep, then why the heck can other meat companies not do it with beef? And because Alliance can do it, then I don't need to be bothered with this expensive and perhaps dangerous tagging procedure, with my sheep. So why do I need to bother with my cattle and deer?

Yes, some companies do have excellent stock control. But there are a number that do not under the current scheme. Bare in mind Sheep are not included in the NAIT scheme, only cattle and deer. Other species can be added and accommodated for as required. We cannot assume a disease outbreak will start at a meat works. It could be found at a number of locations - too many to list. NAIT will be able to provide up to date data on not only movements of individual animals but also where all NAIT animals are at any one point in time. This way we will be able to track and trace much quicker than existing manual systems, where and what animals have come in contact with other individual animals.
NAIT is aware animal handling can be dangerous. Current mandatory barcoded tagging obligations exist. NAIT is replacing that obligation with and RFID tag in place of a visual barcoded tag. If existing animals have existing barcoded yellow tags you have the choice when NAIT begins to send animals to slaughter with a) an RFID tag added to the existing tag or b) with the existing barcoded tags only and pay a NAIT exemption slaughter levy of $13 per head for having the cattle incorrectly tagged without an NAIT RFID tag. If existing tags are not already in an animal’s ear post 1 July they will need to have an RFID tag to move off-farm.
LongRidge;411188 wrote:
3. Following from above, the carcase is going to lose it's tag at the skinning stage. What assurance can you give us that every meat company has systems in place to make the tagging exercise worthwhile? If you cannot, then surely this scheme is as doomed as the AHB scheme is.

All meat companies are required to have systems in place to link the RFID tag number to the carcase ID number.
LongRidge;411188 wrote:
4. My calves are pretty feisty little beggars, and I'm getting old. Is NAIT going to pay my doctors visit costs when I'm injured tagging them? Our land is not flat dairy pasture with 3 electric wires holding the cattle in. Because the ground is steep and rough there are trees and weeds in the way that catch ear tags, and old or new fences that rip them out too. I cannot afford 5 or 6 sets of tags for my animals, so they are not going to be tagged until they leave my ownership.

When applied correctly, the retention of NAIT-approved RFID tags is between 98-99 percent when applied to the central inner part of the ear close to the head, with the female electronic portion of the tag on the inside of the ear and the male portion on the back of the ear.
Yes you will be required to tag your animals at a young age if they are born on your property. They must be tagged within 180 days of birth or before their first off-farm movement, wherever is sooner. It is easier to put a tag in and get correct placement when an animal is small and at a young age than a larger adult animal. The new regulations under the NAIT act are part of having cattle and deer on a property.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 13:27 #415005

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NAIT Ltd;411650 wrote: You will need to let NAIT know either the electronic RFID number (16 digits) or if a linked birth ID visual tag is associated with the white button RFID tag, then you could let NAIT know that number instead. If you had an electronic scanner you could upload a file electronically or otherwise write down the number s and manually type them when registering an animal.
What is the difference between a linked NAIT tag and an unlinked (TRAKA?) NAIT tag, visually? How will someone know whether or not their animals have birth id sets rather than NAITs added later?

Presumably a NAIT tag obtained to match an existing numbered and barcoded AHB tag will be linked already within the NAIT system when it goes live?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 13:32 #415008

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blimeyvicki;411242 wrote: How do we register for NAIT:( I have a herd number and my animals are (mostly) tagged. I assumed that my AHB registration would be transferred to the new NAIT system but what I'm reading above does not gel with that.

Being registered with the Animal Health Board (AHB) and having an AHB herd number does not mean you will automatically be registered with NAIT as they are two separate organisations. You will have to register yourself with NAIT.
To register:
• Go to www.nait.co.nz and register online, or
• Contact NAIT for registration assistance by phoning 0800 624 843,
When you register, you will need to supply NAIT with some personal information and details about your farm or property.
When you create a NAIT number have your AHB herd number handy because you will be asked to provide it.
If you buy ear tags using a Participant Code, please also provide this when you register. Doing so will enable you to electronically download the tag numbers associated with your NAIT number when you register animals, rather than entering the numbers manually.
Please note: continue to use your AHB herd number or participant code when ordering NAIT tags.
blimeyvicki;411242 wrote:
How much are the tags if I am buying in small volumes (say 10 at a time)? I dutifully had my calves tagged to find at least 2 of them had lost one tag each and left a large "slot" in the ear they had ripped them out of :(

Check with your local rural supplies store or whoever you buy tags from for up- to-date pricing, as NAIT does not sell nor set pricing for RFID tags.
blimeyvicki;411242 wrote:
I don't want to have to buy new tags as the herd/tag number belongs to the guy I bought them from, not my number. Can I just retag them with my own AHB tags or NAIT tags?

Yes if an animal loses a tag you can replace it with one with your own herd number printed on it. Replacement NAIT-approved RFID tags are known as TRAKA tags. You should have a few spares on hand if an animal loses a tag and you need to replace it before an animal moves off you property.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 16:16 #415036

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skyline_glenn;411314 wrote: I have 4 steers from the large farm behind us that are already tagged with the NAIT tags. Do we need to register with NAIT or does our AHB registration automatically transfer and what do we need to do with the NAIT tag numbers? These animals will be sent to the works later this year. We also have a steer from another neighbour that isnt tagged with a NAIT tag, it will be homekilled at some stage this year, will this need to be retagged if not killed before july?

You will need to register yourself, your property and your steers with NAIT as the AHB registration does not automatically transfer. Once you are registered you will need to register the individual NAIT tag numbers with NAIT for NAIT to know where each animal is located. You can register yourself now. Animal registration will be available closer to July.

To register yourself and your property :
• Go to www.nait.co.nz and register online, or
• Contact NAIT for registration assistance by phoning 0800 624 843,
When you register, you will need to supply NAIT with some personal information and details about your farm or property.
When you create a NAIT number have your AHB herd number handy because you will be asked to provide it.
If you buy ear tags using a Participant Code, please also provide this when you register. Doing so will enable you to electronically download the tag numbers associated with your NAIT number when you register animals, rather than entering the numbers manually.
Please note you need to continue to use your AHB herd number or participant code when ordering tags.

Provided the steer from the neighbours does not move off farm alive within the next three years, it will not need to have a NAIT RFID tag. There is a three-year exemption for existing animals that do not move off the property from being tagged or registered.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 16:18 #415038

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Ruth;411654 wrote:
What is the difference between a linked NAIT tag and an unlinked (TRAKA?) NAIT tag, visually? How will someone know whether or not their animals have birth id sets rather than NAITs added later?

Presumably a NAIT tag obtained to match an existing numbered and barcoded AHB tag will be linked already within the NAIT system when it goes live?

A TRAKA tag is a single RFID tag so it is not linked to any other tags, nor does it have to be. The printing is a seven-digit herd number or four-letter dairy participant code and 16-digit RFID number.
A Birth ID set is a set of two linked tags. One RFID and one visual panel tag. For this set it will have the same information printed on both tags and will be linked in the NAIT system when NAIT begins for cattle in July 2012. The printing on these two tags is identical and is a herd number, year code (optional) and an animal management number.

A hard and fast rule for tags is:
NAIT TRAKA tags are used to make existing animals NAIT compliant.
NAIT Birth ID tags are used to tag newborn animals and are often used for farmers who also want a smaller management number for on-farm purposes which is significantly less than a 16 digit RFID number on a visual tag.

It is safe to say animals that have TRAKA tags won't be linked to any animals’ existing tags.
Birth ID tags will be linked and available in the NAIT system when the NAIT scheme goes live for cattle in July.

TRAKA tags will be able to be manually linked to any existing AHB bar-coded tags tags when animal registration functionality becomes available in June 2012.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 27 Feb 2012 17:10 #415056

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Ah, that last sentence is the one I have been waiting for!
TRAKA tags will be able to be manually linked to any existing AHB bar-coded tags tags when animal registration functionality becomes available in June 2012.

I have purchased some Traka tags for my older AHB tagged animals, so when they are tagged prior to them being sold after July 1st I just need to insert their current AHB herd and individual number against the tag number that gets put in their ear.

I have a little spread sheet waiting to go, only got 25 to do, but hopefully some of those will be leaving before 1st July and the others will get tagged as they depart over the next 3 years. By that time I will have 5 years worth of birth NAIT tagged calves.

Can I use the Traka tags to replace any birth NAIT tags which are lost in the future-or is it better to buy a repacement NAIT tag of the same number?

The numbers are certainly random !!! so we will have to be extra careful to record the number of the Traka tag against the cows existing tag! Once in the ear they are not that easy to read-unless of course you put them in back to front with the number on the back of the ear!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 28 Feb 2012 11:07 #415171

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Sue;411711 wrote: I have purchased some Traka tags for my older AHB tagged animals, so when they are tagged prior to them being sold after July 1st I just need to insert their current AHB herd and individual number against the tag number that gets put in their ear.

I have a little spread sheet waiting to go, only got 25 to do, but hopefully some of those will be leaving before 1st July and the others will get tagged as they depart over the next 3 years. By that time I will have 5 years worth of birth NAIT tagged calves.

Can I use the Traka tags to replace any birth NAIT tags which are lost in the future-or is it better to buy a repacement NAIT tag of the same number?

The numbers are certainly random !!! so we will have to be extra careful to record the number of the Traka tag against the cows existing tag! Once in the ear they are not that easy to read-unless of course you put them in back to front with the number on the back of the ear!

Hi Sue,

Yes, you can use a TRAKA tag as the replacement tag if one gets lost. The TRAKA tag will become the replacement tag of sorts for the future so you can have them as spares and use them if you notice one is missing. If they still have the visual linked tag you will be able to tell NAIT that cow number xxxx lost its old RFID tag but here is its new RFID TRAKA tag number xxxx and link the two together.

Also yes, TRAKA tags are randomly-generated numbers at point of sale so it is unlikely they would be in sequence if you bought a bunch of them. The NAIT-approved RFID tag is not designed as a visual reading tag. In most cases it is designed to be read electronically or linked to a secondary visual tag if you don't have an electronic reader.

The female electronic portion of the RFID tag needs to be on the inside of the ear to ensure the best retention. If it is the wrong way round you are more likely to have a higher percentage of tag losses.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 28 Feb 2012 11:56 #415192

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Will a TRAKA tag be able to be used in the same way as a Direct-to-slaughter tag? i.e. will an animal be able to be sent to the works with a solely a TRAKA tag in one ear and would it meet the requirements to tag new calves in this way (if they are destined for the works within a couple of years)?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 28 Feb 2012 12:02 #415195

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If you are registered with NAIT, do you now not need to be registered with the Animal Health Board?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 28 Feb 2012 14:45 #415233

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Jo-Otago;411858 wrote: Will a TRAKA tag be able to be used in the same way as a Direct-to-slaughter tag? i.e. will an animal be able to be sent to the works with a solely a TRAKA tag in one ear and would it meet the requirements to tag new calves in this way (if they are destined for the works within a couple of years)?

YES for existing animals you can use the traka tag as you do now for a direct-to-slaughter tag when going to the works. For newborn calves destined to stay on your property until slaughter however, it is preferable to buy a birth ID RFID tag rather than a TRAKA tag but without the linked secondary visual tag. It will make it easier for you to register the tags with NAIT once have you tagged the animals.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 28 Feb 2012 14:46 #415234

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Clods;411861 wrote: If you are registered with NAIT, do you now not need to be registered with the Animal Health Board?

Every person owning cattle or deer must register those animals as a herd with the Animal Health Board. Even if you only have one animal, it is considered a herd and must be registered as such. Persons in charge of animals must be registered with NAIT. The person in charge may not necessarily be the owner.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 29 Feb 2012 14:13 #415402

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PeterNZ;411270 wrote: You say
How will NAIT cover animals in transport? Lets say we go to a show and register the off farm movement with NAIT. We leave after we showed our animals and are on the road when a disease outbreak happens in the area the show is located. When we arrive back at the farm our first priority is and should be animal welfare. Unloading, feeding, watering and shifting back onto paddock. We might find time the next morning when we log on to the internet and update NAIT. But meanwhile the officials are running around looking for our cattle. How will this situation be covered?

A person in charge of animals will need to record all cattle movements within 48 hours following midnight on the day of moving or receiving the cattle. There are three exemptions to this obligation - movements to land within 20km of your farm that has the same NAIT number, and movements to NAIT-accredited sale yards or meat processors when they are responsible to make the movement declaration.

If you’re taking cattle from your property to a show and back again, you can record the two movements in a single NAIT declaration. If there were a disease outbreak during this time, MAF would manage the appropriate response, which might mean that you are asked to record movements within a shorter timeframe.

The obligation to record movements within 48 hours balances practicality and timeliness.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 29 Feb 2012 16:19 #415424

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Do I have to use a yellow AHB tag and a white NAIT tag in my calves, or do my NAIT birth tags automatically link to AHB?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 29 Feb 2012 18:47 #415467

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Do you guys have cool badges and flashing lights on your cars or are you more trenchcoats and a grim nod across a smokey bar kinda outfit ? :)
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 29 Feb 2012 21:47 #415488

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RhodeRed;412158 wrote: Do you guys have cool badges and flashing lights on your cars or are you more trenchcoats and a grim nod across a smokey bar kinda outfit ? :)
I was thinking more along the lines of a 'Men in Black' theme :rolleyes: You know, saving the world with electronic gismos [;)]

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 01 Mar 2012 14:23 #415576

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LongRidge;412111 wrote: Do I have to use a yellow AHB tag and a white NAIT tag in my calves, or do my NAIT birth tags automatically link to AHB?

The short answer is yes.
A NAIT birth ID set includes a white NAIT tag and a yellow Animal Health Board (AHB) tag. These two tags are linked; the number printed on the outside of the NAIT tag is the same as on the yellow AHB tag.

Provided you give your AHB number when you register with NAIT both the RFID number (the electronically readable number embedded in the NAIT tag) and the visual number on the outside will appear on the NAIT IT s ystem once the tag functionality is available.

The tags are already linked to the AHB as as your tag retailer has ordered the tags through the AHB's tag ordering system in the first place.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 01 Mar 2012 20:18 #415663

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Hmmm, interesting. Calves for sale at yesterdays saleyards had no AHB tags, and were sold .....
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 10:54 #415756

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I just registered our property but it asks for no. animals without tags for the year 2012 - we currently have some without tags which will be tagged when I order the new tags - so they will be tagged within the year 2012 (but aren't at the current point in time). Once they are tagged, can/should I then log on and change the "animals without tags at this location" information to zero? Thanks
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 11:56 #415772

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LongRidge;412372 wrote: Hmmm, interesting. Calves for sale at yesterdays saleyards had no AHB tags, and were sold .....

Did the calves have a white NAIT tag but no yellow AHB tag? If so this is ok as cattle being moved for sale between now and 1 July 2012 must have either an AHB-approved tag OR a NAIT-approved RFID tag as agreed between NAIT and the AHB. It is only a problem if there were not tags at all.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 12:22 #415779

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How will primary and secondary tags work from now and from 1 July? Which is the approved primary now and then? Is/will a secondary (be) required?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 12:49 #415784

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Jo-Otago;412472 wrote: I just registered our property but it asks for no. animals without tags for the year 2012 - we currently have some without tags which will be tagged when I order the new tags - so they will be tagged within the year 2012 (but aren't at the current point in time). Once they are tagged, can/should I then log on and change the "animals without tags at this location" information to zero? Thanks

You certainly can. Just log on - click your NAIT number and you will see 'Farm Details' and a button called 'change' off to the right. Click this, scroll to the bottom and you will see the number of untagged animals. You can update these details and click continue.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 15:09 #415818

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A question re that topic, number of untagged animals?
It doesn't state what type of tagged animals-should it be only NAIT tagged, or do the older fully compliant AHB tags count? I found this question slightly misleading!
No I don't have any untagged animals-but they don't all have NAIT tags!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 02 Mar 2012 19:56 #415884

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Likewise, I have a few old cows that were tagged with either brass tags or AHB tags, but are no longer tagged except with our own identification. I guess they are classified as "tagged"?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 03 Mar 2012 16:53 #416023

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NAIT Ltd;411146 wrote: ... Each movement needs to be recorded from your NAIT number to the show which will also have a NAIT number for the event, and back again...
So, an A&P Society needs to apply once, or annually, for a NAIT number for the annual Show? Does the Society do that online? Is there a cost associated with applying for the NAIT number for an annual Show (bearing in mind most/all A&P Societies are not for profit)? And - what else does the Society need to do? Is the Society reqd to ask for and/or record, for example, the NAIT number of each animal which attends/is shown at the annual Show?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 05 Mar 2012 11:04 #416199

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Ruth;412496 wrote: How will primary and secondary tags work from now and from 1 July? Which is the approved primary now and then? Is/will a secondary (be) required?

From now until July 1st:

Cattle moving from the farm to slaughter: only needs a primary tag and no secondary tag. The primary tag can be either a NAIT or AHB approved tag.
Cattle moving from the farm to sale or grazing need both a primary and secondary tag. The primary tag can be either a NAIT or AHB approved primary tag, the secondary tag must be an AHB approved secondary tag.
Cattle remaining on the farm are not legally required to be tagged.
Calves less than 30 days old moving off the farm to slaughter only require a direct to slaughter tag from the slaughter house they are being sent to.

Summary:
Primary tags are either NAIT or AHB approved primary tags; Secondary tags are AHB approved secondary tags.

From the 1st of July 2012:
Cattle moving from the farm to slaughter need a NAIT approved primary tag only.
Cattle moving from the farm to sale or grazing need a NAIT approved primary tag and a NAIT OR AHB approved secondary tag.
Cattle remaining on the farm need a NAIT approved primary tag and a NAIT OR AHB approved secondary tag. However there is a three year "grace" period for cattle remaining on farm and will only need to be tagged before the 1st of July 2015 or if they are moved off the farm.
Newborn cattle must be tagged with a NAIT approved primary tag and either NAIT or AHB approved secondary tag within 180 days of birth or prior to moving off farm, whichever comes first.

Summary:
Primary tags must be a NAIT approved primary tag; Secondary tags can be either a NAIT or AHB approved secondary tag.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 05 Mar 2012 12:02 #416206

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NAIT Ltd;412954 wrote: From the 1st of July 2012:
Summary:
Primary tags must be a NAIT approved primary tag; Secondary tags can be either a NAIT or AHB approved secondary tag.
Please define the approved tags, or direct us to a document which gives the definition of the approved secondary tag(s) in particular.

Which of my current approved tags may be used as a secondary from 1 July 2012? If a Secondary can be a NAIT tag, do you mean an animal might have two RFID tags, or is something else meant by "NAIT... approved secondary tag"?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 05 Mar 2012 20:11 #416265

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Does an AHB primary tag satisfy the requirement for an AHB secondary tag ie can I use a primary instead of a secondary AHB tag?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 06 Mar 2012 18:34 #416455

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NAIT Ltd;411903 wrote: Every person owning cattle or deer must register those animals as a herd with the Animal Health Board. Even if you only have one animal, it is considered a herd and must be registered as such. Persons in charge of animals must be registered with NAIT. The person in charge may not necessarily be the owner.

Are you adamant that only "persons" need to be registered?

What about "flesh and blood human beings" that own livestock?

Are you aware as a gov' related entity that "persons" and "human beings" are not the same thing in law?

Are you attempting to lay some form of claim, title or contract over "common law private property" (livestock in this case) owned by "human beings"?

Are you attempting to create some form of co-joinder between the "persons who must be registered" that you mention and the "flesh and blood human beings" that may own "common-law private property" (livestock)?

~Thanks in advance for your answers.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 17:06 #416891

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Sue;412539 wrote: A question re that topic, number of untagged animals?
It doesn't state what type of tagged animals-should it be only NAIT tagged, or do the older fully compliant AHB tags count? I found this question slightly misleading!
No I don't have any untagged animals-but they don't all have NAIT tags!

Hi Sue you have a good point. The question refers to whether your cattle are tagged with NAIT-approved tags.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 17:07 #416893

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LongRidge;412608 wrote: Likewise, I have a few old cows that were tagged with either brass tags or AHB tags, but are no longer tagged except with our own identification. I guess they are classified as "tagged"?

They are classified as untagged for NAIT purposes. They will need to be tagged with NAIT-approved RFID tags to be classified as tagged under the NAIT scheme.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 17:09 #416895

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Prim;412758 wrote: So, an A&P Society needs to apply once, or annually, for a NAIT number for the annual Show? Does the Society do that online? Is there a cost associated with applying for the NAIT number for an annual Show (bearing in mind most/all A&P Societies are not for profit)? And - what else does the Society need to do? Is the Society reqd to ask for and/or record, for example, the NAIT number of each animal which attends/is shown at the annual Show?

The A&P society will need to apply once for a NAIT number but will need to update NAIT annually with the date of the upcoming A&P show. There is no cost associated with obtaining a NAIT number. The A&P society will need to inform NAIT of the event's contact person, and the date and location of the event. NAIT has no requirement to ask for or record the NAIT number of animals attending the show.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 17:10 #416897

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LongRidge;413025 wrote: Does an AHB primary tag satisfy the requirement for an AHB secondary tag ie can I use a primary instead of a secondary AHB tag?

Yes - if you have a NAIT-approved RFID tag, you can use what was the AHB primary (the yellow panel tag) as your secondary tag.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 18:11 #416904

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NAIT Ltd;413698 wrote: Yes - if you have a NAIT-approved RFID tag, you can use what was the AHB primary (the yellow panel tag) as your secondary tag.
And what of the old AHB secondary tags? Will they be of any use now, or later?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 09 Mar 2012 20:06 #416936

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Re, "are all your cattle tagged" Thanks NAIT. I probably answered it wrongly then, but I was being honest! Yes, they are.

I have now purchased 30 traka tags to do my old girls with, when they leave-but I won't be doing my old stud sire 'cos he won't fit in the crush and head bail anymore, at over 1100kgs. He has his primary and secondary tags and that is how he will leave!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 11 Mar 2012 13:13 #417120

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Do I need a special tag applicator, or will I be able to use my AHB one?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 11 Mar 2012 15:17 #417133

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You need the new one with the removable bit which allows for application of the RFID tags. Our one is lovely to use, says Stephan, whom I let tag the calves. We didn't strictly need a new one, but it is vastly nicer to use than the old silver ones.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 11 Mar 2012 17:43 #417149

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Our 'old' one was a yellow one and it wouldn't take the fatter RFID tags, so had to get a green one as well. But that means we can load both, one for each ear. The pin side of the new tagger swings outwards if the animal pulls away-so doesn't rip the ear.

We actually tagged a 1999 born cow today-with a flash new pair of tags in the old holes-Ursa is off to live with Computron, when she weans her current calf.
Sue
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 12 Mar 2012 11:16 #417223

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Ruth;412961 wrote: Please define the approved tags, or direct us to a document which gives the definition of the approved secondary tag(s) in particular.

Which of my current approved tags may be used as a secondary from 1 July 2012? If a Secondary can be a NAIT tag, do you mean an animal might have two RFID tags, or is something else meant by "NAIT... approved secondary tag"?

The NAIT RFID tag has been referred to as a “secondary tag” for the purpose of transition prior to 1 July. After 1 July, the RFID tag will be considered as a primary tag only.

The secondary can not be another NAIT RFID tag. The secondary tag can be any AHB-approved tag including the yellow panel tag (with or without bar code), the brass tag, or button tag.

The current official tagging scheme, run by the Animal Health Board (AHB), requires a secondary tag for any movement, other than to slaughter. For cattle being slaughtered prior to 1 July 2012 the minimum identification requirement is a barcoded primary ear tag or a direct to slaughter tag. After 1 July 2012, cattle destined for slaughter will require a NAIT RFID tag.

The requirement for an official secondary tag to be present for movements other than to slaughter after 1 July 2012 is currently under review. An announcement is expected before NAIT becomes mandatory on 1 July 2012.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 12 Mar 2012 14:42 #417245

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Ruth;413705 wrote: And what of the old AHB secondary tags? Will they be of any use now, or later?

Yes . Any old Animal Health Board (AHB) secondary tags can also be used up in the future and continue to be approved secondary tags so long as they have a herd number or dairy participant code and scheme logo printed on them.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 12 Mar 2012 14:43 #417246

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Sue;413738 wrote: Re, "are all your cattle tagged" Thanks NAIT. I probably answered it wrongly then, but I was being honest! Yes, they are.

I have now purchased 30 traka tags to do my old girls with, when they leave-but I won't be doing my old stud sire 'cos he won't fit in the crush and head bail anymore, at over 1100kgs. He has his primary and secondary tags and that is how he will leave!

After 1 July, the animal you refer to above could qualify for a NAIT slaughter exemption for an impractical to tag animal, so it could be sent to slaughter with only an existing AHB yellow bar-coded primary tag in its ear. However, there is a cost for this exemption. A NAIT slaughter levy is deducted at $13 per head for impractical to tag animals.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 12 Mar 2012 14:44 #417247

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LongRidge;413936 wrote: Do I need a special tag applicator, or will I be able to use my AHB one?

You will need to invest in an RFID ear tag applicator to correctly apply NAIT-approved RFID tags.
Older models of applicators are not designed for RFID tags and could damage the tag during the application process.
To ensure the applicator you currently use on-farm is suitable for NAIT-approved RFID ear tags, contact your usual rural services provider.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 14 Mar 2012 20:14 #417545

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RhodeRed;413228 wrote: Are you adamant that only "persons" need to be registered?

What about "flesh and blood human beings" that own livestock?

Are you aware as a gov' related entity that "persons" and "human beings" are not the same thing in law?

Are you attempting to lay some form of claim, title or contract over "common law private property" (livestock in this case) owned by "human beings"?

Are you attempting to create some form of co-joinder between the "persons who must be registered" that you mention and the "flesh and blood human beings" that may own "common-law private property" (livestock)?

~Thanks in advance for your answers.

Dear ol' NAIT,

Would be oh so 'appy if you could find some time to answer me questions ... just when you got some time loik.

Hugs n' luv.
~Rhodie
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 15 Mar 2012 00:49 #417589

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LongRidge;413936 wrote: Do I need a special tag applicator, or will I be able to use my AHB one?

LR, you, and others, might want to investigate this one further. I was shown today how to adapt my Allflex taggers to take NAIT tags. This is will what I will be doing as I'm not into throwing good money after bad - and after reading the latest Farmers Weekly, I'm even less inclined to.

RR, you don't really think the nameless, faceless face of Mr NAIT Ltd is going to answer your questions do you[^]

Cheers,
Ronnie
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 15 Mar 2012 22:00 #417718

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Ronney;414453 wrote:
RR, you don't really think the nameless, faceless face of Mr NAIT Ltd is going to answer your questions do you[^]
Cheers,
Ronnie

I am an eternal optimist. :)
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 18 Mar 2012 22:58 #418011

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you don't really think the nameless, faceless face of Mr NAIT Ltd is going to answer your questions do you[^]
Cheers,


They were at the CD Feilddays and very helpfull and I got it all sorted. They wernt nameless or faceless in fact one was kinda cute!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 18 Mar 2012 23:29 #418012

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kindajojo;414929 wrote: you don't really think the nameless, faceless face of Mr NAIT Ltd is going to answer your questions do you[^]
Cheers,

They were at the CD Feilddays and very helpfull and I got it all sorted. They wernt nameless or faceless in fact one was kinda cute!

Well, it would be a bit hard to be faceless, or even nameless, at a Field Day wouldn't it? And of course they were helpful - they want you to comply:rolleyes: On here I wouldn't expect a face but a name - well! But NAIT Ltd. Unless things have changed, Ltd means a Limited Liability Company - ergo they are a business and as such they are there to make money and if it all turns to shit, their liability will be limited. No wonder I remain cynical. You are no doubt aware that you will be paying a levy for this scheme?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 19 Mar 2012 19:41 #418104

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kindajojo;414929 wrote: They were at the CD Feilddays and very helpfull and I got it all sorted. They wernt nameless or faceless in fact one was kinda cute!

By "got it all sorted" I assume you mean they "accepted your submission" and "bestowed a privilege upon you" in place of your previous innate rights?
These privileges will no doubt become more and more restrictive and require more and more revenue from yourself to maintain as time marches on.
Still, "musn't grumble" eh? :)

You weren't dealing with "Mr NAIT" btw, you were dealing with his agents.
NAIT is a "person", a "corporation" and as such a "legal fiction".
You will only ever deal with the faceless "Mr NAIT" via his agents who will make claims on Mr NAITs behalf.

In accepting to form contract with NAIT via his agents, you are forgoing your unalienable (un-a-lien-able) innate rights as a flesh and blood human being and also accepting NAITs tenet that you are a "person".

You should realise that you are not a "person", but you may have a "person".

I know that may sound like gobbledegook to some of you, but unless you start peering into how the government and entities like NAIT operate and how they fool you into their 'game', you will remain operating in ignorance and being continously tricked and cohersed by them.

The govt, the law society - and entities like NAIT use "legalese", it is a language unto itself, laid over common English it can sound alot like common English, BUT where simple words like "person" or "understanding" have VASTLY different meanings to the context YOU may think they have in common English.

Enjoy your new "privileges" my friend. ;)
Samuel Adams, circa 1776 wrote:
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 19 Mar 2012 19:48 #418108

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Ronney;414930 wrote: Well, it would be a bit hard to be faceless, or even nameless, at a Field Day wouldn't it? And of course they were helpful - they want you to comply:rolleyes: On here I wouldn't expect a face but a name - well! But NAIT Ltd. Unless things have changed, Ltd means a Limited Liability Company - ergo they are a business and as such they are there to make money and if it all turns to shit, their liability will be limited. No wonder I remain cynical. You are no doubt aware that you will be paying a levy for this scheme?

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 19 Mar 2012 22:30 #418139

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Actually RIR I registered some time ago, I understand the need for the scheme, I have read the literature...... I dont in any way feel my rights are impinged and "got it all sorted means that I know know what tag regime is required and that I have the correct equipment for the job, and that my animals will meet the requirements

I thought this thread was for real people who wanted to get proper information to assist with their activities..... yet my post got hijacked by those who want to impose their own cynical views which serve no purpose other than to highlight their own insecurities and ignorance.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 20 Mar 2012 08:30 #418154

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Very well put kindajojo!

It is meant to be an information thread, put up through the co operation of NAIT and Kate-not for general sarcastic comments on a subject we should be complying with, no matter whether we agree or not. The opportunity for objections and submissions was years ago-now we have to live with what we have got!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 20 Mar 2012 09:20 #418164

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kindajojo;415067 wrote: Actually RIR I registered some time ago, I understand the need for the scheme, I have read the literature...... I dont in any way feel my rights are impinged ... yet my post got hijacked by those who want to impose their own cynical views which serve no purpose other than to highlight their own insecurities and ignorance.

G'day Kinajojo,
Hey, I'm not for a second trying to deny you the ability to sign yourself up for anything.
You're an adult human being, you have the will to do anything you want, conduct you affairs and contract with who you want, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights and well-being of other people.

As far as 'hijacking a thread" - I've only intended to share information and allow folk to stop and think about what they are doing and how things actually work.
Its not done from a place of insecurity or ignorance as you claim, quite the opposite, I have posted the info' I did out of concern for my fellow man/woman, its certainly not from a place of ignorance.
Sue;415084 wrote: Very well put kindajojo!
It is meant to be an information thread, ...

As said above - I've attempted to give out some info here out of care and concern.
Sue;415084 wrote:
The opportunity for objections and submissions was years ago-now we have to live with what we have got!

I'm sorry Sue, I don't agree with the "have to live with what we've got" / "musn't grumble" attitude.
If something is fundamentally opposed to the innate freedoms of people then the go-along-to-get-along attitude isn't really an argument, its been done before many times in history and the results are almost inevitably quite tragic.

I'm honestly not trying to wind you or anyone else up or yank your chain, I'm just trying to make you aware that you have more options than what you are funnelled into by the nanny-state, if only you can take the time to look around.

If more people took the time to open their eyes and see how councils, government and private corporations REALLY work (through application of admiralty/mechantile law and hegelian/malthusian dogma) and consider what alternative recourse we've always had, then our world would eventually be a much better place.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 20 Mar 2012 10:20 #418178

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RR, this topic has been done to death on numerous earlier threads, with the pros and cons of the scheme. This particular thread was meant to be purely for asking questions of NAIT, for those of us who need to know as it affects us personally-so yes, you have hi jacked a purely information only thread, and I thank NAIT for answering them clearly and concisely.
Sue
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 20 Mar 2012 12:45 #418196

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RhodeRed;413228 wrote:
Are you adamant that only "persons" need to be registered?

What about "flesh and blood human beings" that own livestock?

Are you aware as a gov' related entity that "persons" and "human beings" are not the same thing in law?

Are you attempting to lay some form of claim, title or contract over "common law private property" (livestock in this case) owned by "human beings"?

Are you attempting to create some form of co-joinder between the "persons who must be registered" that you mention and the "flesh and blood human beings" that may own "common-law private property" (livestock)?

Apologies for the delay getting back to you, the term PICA (Person In Charge of Animals) is defined in the National Animal Identification and Tracing Act 2012 as “ a natural person in day-to-day charge of a NAIT animal”.

When it comes to responsibility for NAIT animals, the focus is on the person in charge of animals (PICA) (as defined in the Act). This is because if there is some form of outbreak we need to be able to contact the person in charge of animals (PICA) to trace and limit their animals’ movement. This may not be the actual owner.

The NAIT scheme needs to identify the person in charge of animals (PICA) to be able to trace stock. The relationship between that person and the owner of the animals is not required information for the scheme.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 13:09 #418291

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Sue, I quite agree that the requirements of society must mean that those who don't wish to follow those requirements need to be brought into line. However, I totally oppose laws that are not for the good of society. I am able to keep suggesting alternatives and pointing out the faults of the law, but in a totalitarian system great wrong can be done by those who do not correct the faults. Look at Hitlers Germany, Bush's USA, the communist whitchhunts in USA, the killing fields of Burma, etc.
As a Quality Assunance ex-professional, when I look at this NAIT nonsense I see that the aim is good, but the fundamental requirement of "will it work" is totally missing. The fact that the law has been driven by businessmen making a fortune from our problem is also a conflict of interests.
Discussion which would be better described as "investigation" must continue after the law has been passed, to ensure that necessary modifications are made. These NAIT businessmen may not have considered our problems with the NAIT requirements, so this is a very good place to tell them those problems that we see.
As an Assurance Systems person, I still cannot see how tagging our animals is going to prevent an exotic disease getting into the wild animals, and then controlled. Perhaps NAIT Ltd would like to tell us how this scheme is going to solve that fundamental problem?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 15:27 #418309

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I thank NAIT for answering our questions too, like the scheme or not this is what is happening so may as well get our heads around it. I think I almost have... but I have a few more questions:

I have a set of AHB tags (primary panel tags with matching secondary buttons) as I placed a large order some years back to see us through for quite a while. Can I now then order a set of NAIT primary (RFID) tags that can be matched (with the same animal ID numbers, say for example, numbers 25 through to 50) to my existing (and as yet un-used) AHB panel tags? (I would assume in this case that my matching AHB buttons would then be superflous but at least I could still use the panels).

If I can do this, then on the Allflex order form in the part for NAIT primary tags (image attached below), could I achieve this by writing in the "Range" box the numbers that I want to match with (e.g. 25-50). ?

Would this achieve what I'm wanting? And would I then need to do anything further on the NAIT website later to say they were matched with my AHB panel tags or would this be assumed if they carry the same animal ID number?

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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 17:05 #418320

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That sounds exactly like the order I put through last year. I have a number of NAIT tags which have a printed number on them matching the yellow AHB tags the cows currently carry. For those cows whose tags had broken and gone, I ordered paired sets in their original numbers - replacement AHB numbered former primaries and the associated NAIT tag. The system will presumably know they are paired.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 17:18 #418326

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LR, this thread is probably not the one to discuss the issues you raised, but having been involved in exotic disease contingency issues with poultry, and how critical it is to know where possible disease contacts are, I can see that the sooner contacts are located and all surrounding livestock are monitored-the quicker the authorities can prevent any disease spreading further than it needs to.

Without any ID system at all, the livestock industry-and the wild cloven hoofed animals are far more vulnerable to any possible disease spreading before it can be traced and quarantined.

I'm sure modifications have already been done, and will continue to be fine tuned once it is up and running.
There is so much ignorance and resistance out there (talked to heaps of folks at CD Fieldays and even at local saleyards yesterday) that many just don't and refuse to understand and have got the wrong end of the stick, it will be a hard road ahead for NAIT!
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 19:04 #418348

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I wondered that to Jo, however as I have only a few cows, and to me #3 will always be number three.

I will order just a RFID tag and replace the secondary button and register them with NAIT under that number. So for example AHB number 13 may be NAIT 10. I will just need to note my paper record with the cross reference. I dont have a scanner but the girls are friendly enough to read the tag even if the eyesite may not be up too it

The cows all have a range of numbers so it would be messy to order individual numbers

All new additions will have the matched set.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 21 Mar 2012 20:03 #418353

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Firstly I have registered with NAIT and am extremely excited that my number is in the 500's and I can remember it!!!!

As opposed to my AHB or farming ID number, neither of which I can remember...:rolleyes: (nor my IRD number, pin numbers, internet banking, telephone banking, facebook, TM, other website passwords either but that's another discussion altogether and I AM only in my 40's so senile decay hasn't quite set in yet).:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

But this brings me to my concern, we farmers who have complied with rules already have two numbers, a farming ID number and a AHB number.

Now we have to have a NAIT number and registration and I believe a reporting responsibility... now NZ is a small country, limited tax payers, and limited income earners, couldn't some of this info be shared across a broad agricultural data base rather than set up a 3rd body for us to respond to?

And I know '''lifestyle farmers''' who sell their stock from their paddocks to meat wholesale agents etc who don't even register for any of the previously mentioned bodies and they receive cash and they don't declare either their profits or losses (more fool them I say). So here I am looking at buying new tags to comply after July and perhaps a new applicator, but my stock numbers are under 50 (for now).

What is NAIT going to do with the meat processing businesses who are purchasing untagged stock?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 22 Mar 2012 00:45 #418386

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Sue;415108 wrote: RR, this topic has been done to death on numerous earlier threads, with the pros and cons of the scheme. This particular thread was meant to be purely for asking questions of NAIT, for those of us who need to know as it affects us personally-so yes, you have hi jacked a purely information only thread, and I thank NAIT for answering them clearly and concisely.

Sue, with all due respect, the topic has not been done to death and I wonder how many people out there would have been far more opposed to it had they known the long term implications of it. Those, of course are never evident in initial discussions. However, you are quite right in that this particular forum was set up for questions and answers on the NAIT "scheme" and should be confined to that. And I'm guilty of "hijacking" the thread, not RR. To that end, perhaps Kate could transfer all the relevant posts back to one of the earlier threads and although they may be out of context, I would imagine that they will be picked up on by those that are interested.

But until that happens, while you did not personally call me ignorant, by implication I am. I am not thick, I am not stupid and had there been more public awareness of this right back at the beginning, I would have been strongly opposed to it - as I am now. Yes, I will comply simply because I have to if I want to buy and sell cattle through the appropriate chanels but doing that doesn't make me agree with the scheme. It would seem that LR, RR and myself are the only ones to have worked out that NAIT is a business, a limited liability company and couldn't give a continental damn if disease enters this country or not - but it's a bloody good way of making money in the meantime - along with Alflex. And like everything that goes on here, despite the money it costs, if disease did enter the country, they would be running around like headless chooks not knowing where to start. I might have been more impressed if border control had been strengthened, those bringing in illegal foodstuffs had been put on the first plane home instead of which they are given a small fine, told to enjoy their holiday and then slap a young man on the first plane out of the country because he brought in cannibas. How dumb is that?

Ronnie
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 22 Mar 2012 13:21 #418431

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Ruth;415273 wrote: That sounds exactly like the order I put through last year. I have a number of NAIT tags which have a printed number on them matching the yellow AHB tags the cows currently carry. For those cows whose tags had broken and gone, I ordered paired sets in their original numbers - replacement AHB numbered former primaries and the associated NAIT tag. The system will presumably know they are paired.
That sounds encouraging then, thanks Ruth! :)
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 22 Mar 2012 21:18 #418484

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NAIT - I have registered etc....can you tell me, apart from purchasing the ear tags, what do I have to pay for the scheme each year and when will I get the bill ?
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 22 Mar 2012 22:07 #418495

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kjj, a good question. I understand that we will be paid less at the freezing works, ie the fees will come out at the freezing works, so everyone selling cattle will get paid a bit less for them. It will be interesting how they find the homekillers that are deliberately not tb tested, because the tb testing staff will have to become the policemen, rather than the helpers that they have been so far.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 22 Mar 2012 23:58 #418508

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LR, one of the options is to levy the ear tags (these tags are now starting to look very expensive[:(!]). That way they will rope in all the housecows and pets that will never go to the works, the freezer beasts processed by homekill, the bull that breaks his leg and is worthless other than dog tucker etc. etc.

Cheers,
Ronnie
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 12:11 #418556

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I thought the ear tags were already levied?
I have another query for NAIT if they have time to come back & answer any more queries...

I understand there will be a requirement for feeder (4-day old) calves to be tagged before leaving the dairy farm they were born on, if being sold to calf-rearers. Can the purchaser take their own tags to the farm and thus tag said calves with their own NAIT tags, or do the tags placed in these calves have to be from the farm of origin??
If the second applies, do the purchasers need to somehow find out the NAIT barcode for these animals, or can they just record the animal ID number from the tags (assuming they have one?).
Many thanks
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 12:34 #418560

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The point of traceability is that it is possible to detect where an animal originated, thus birth id sets are applied by the place of birth before the animal's first movement. That one has been a long time coming!
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 12:56 #418563

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Buyers will have to start putting pressure on vendors to supply the spreadsheets which are generated with the manufacture of the tags. Or find a friendly stock agent, or see if your veterinary practice or farm supply cooperative has a tag reading wand for hire.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 14:50 #418590

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I have a bad feeling it's not going to be worth the while of dairy farmers to be bothered with all this then, and more calves will just end up just going as bobbies so they don't have to which is going to make it hard to get feeder calves & probably a lot more expensive, bugger :(
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 15:31 #418592

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Or people may do as you suggested and the system will fall down in those cases. Things may also settle as people become familiar with and accustomed to the new requirements.
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NAIT Questions and Answers forum 23 Mar 2012 17:04 #418601

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Hi LongRidge – NAIT Ltd is an industry-owned company. It is owned by three industry good bodies representing farmers: Beef + Lamb NZ, Dairy NZ and Deer NZ. NAIT is a not-for-profit organisation and only seeks to recover the costs of operating the new identification scheme.

It is true that NAIT will not stop or prevent a disease outbreak from happening. That is controlled at the border by MAF and NZ Biosecurity. NAIT’s role is to provide reliable, up-to-date information on individual animal locations and movements, which will enhance New Zealand's ability to respond more quickly in the event of a biosecurity threat such as a disease outbreak. A quick response will help limit the spread of disease, help maintain New Zealand's reputation in overseas markets, and our ability to resume trade after a biosecurity event; safeguarding farmer income and reducing the economic impact of such an event.
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