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TOPIC: Ducks and salmonella

Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 11:39 #21125

  • Xartep
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I have 7 ducks who puddle about in the stream that runs across into the neighbors property and back again into mine.
He has just asked me to keep my ducks out of the stream as they spread salmonella and the stream is the only source of water on his property.[:0] He is worried that his calf will get sick...
Now I would if I could but there is just no reasoning with Ducks [;)] So I have blocked off the gaps under the fence where I think they are going through. And am hoping that the ducks will take the hint and go downstream a bit to the part of the stream that is running on our property.
Are 7 ducks likely to cause a salmonella problem[?] or is this just scare mongering[?] (he mentioned that he had spoken to a "few people" - I suspect it was just one who has strong opinions :p )
We have plans to make a fenced pond for the ducks, further away from his place, so this is only a short term problem, but I would like to be able to discuss with confidence.:D
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 11:48 #307646

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Hi xartep :) I would put a call to your vet and see what they say. They will be able to tell you any pros and cons. Our ducks used to use all our troughs with no ill effect to the stock and any puddles that they found. Some people just don't like ducks :confused:[:0] and one of our neighbours used to go out of his way to try and kill them until one of our other neighbours reported him, he is a complete ars......[:(!]
Good luck trying to keep them on your side of the fence [;)] we ended up having to put chicken mesh on our boundry fences for as far as the ducks would roam and thank goodness our ducks never learnt to fly :)

Sandra
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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 11:52 #307648

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Neighbors aye? LOL
There's the opinionated ones, and the don't have a clue ones, and the ones with common sense and good knowledge bases that they are will to share. We have all three here :D Thank goodness for #3[;)]
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 12:07 #307651

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They are only going to spread salmonella if they have got it and are carriers!

Whilst ducks-and for that matter all species do have salmonella, some of the strains do not cross species anyway. If the birds have Salmonella Typhimurium-and there are numerous strains of that type, they may pass it on to calves-but then there are wild ducks and sparrows that get it which you cannot contain either!

The other thing is it can work both ways and your ducks could pick up infection from his calves!

At least if they paddle around upstream but do not go and poo in his paddock, then the numbers of any infective bacteria would be well diluted before it flows through his place. Salmonella is a numbers game-it is everywhere but only a problem when in enough numbers in the right place!

Whilst it is annoying having someone elses domestic creatures encroaching on your land and making a mess (I'm thinking of a previous neighbours b****y Berkshire pigs which kept coming in and digging up our paddocks!) you just have to do your best to contain them where they should be and get along with the neighbour calmly.
Sue
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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 12:22 #307653

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Thanks Sue
Hopefully blocking the small gaps under the fence will work and they will go to the downstream part on our land instead. Problem solved. [;)]
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 12:28 #307655

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swing the story around this way...if his calf were to get salmonella your ducks would be top of the culprit list if they had been pooing in its drinking water source!
The likelihood of his calf getting salmonella is an unknown - many factors come in to play including the things that Sue has mentioned above

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 15:55 #307687

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I insisted my neighbour keep her ducks on her side of the fence... actually I told her I would shoot the bl***y things if I saw them on my side again[:0]
But.... they didn't have a stream or pool on to swim in either so naturally thought my trough was rather desirable[;)] Which wouldn't have been an issue if I didn't have 7 sets of mournful eyes looking at me and refusing to drink out of said trough :( Which in turn meant I had to traipse down a very steep hill at least twice a day to clean the trough so they could drink (holding off the ducks in the meantime) or not use that paddock:(

I mentioned salmonella, amongst other things, to her as reasons why I would feel no remorse in taking drastic action. I didn't need to do anything in the end, she removed them altogether from her place.

* I had ducks... I like ducks :D
Strange how much you've got to know, Before you know how little you know.

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 16:47 #307698

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a stream should be ok as the water is flowing and that should stop the water going bad?? Trough would be a different story!!
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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 17:40 #307710

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Oh definitely, a stream would be much better Leeanne :)
I was just sharing.... If Xartep's neighbour had spoken to me, I would probably be 'that person' with the strong opinion[;)]

But if the ducks were constantly on the other persons property, would salmonella be an issue where they camped?
Strange how much you've got to know, Before you know how little you know.

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 18:46 #307719

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And we respect your opinion Drifter.

I suspect that salmonella would only be a problem where the ducks camp if they carry it. I also suspect that a larger population of ducks may be required.

In this case they have several acres in which they play here and then they trot off to the stream for a wash for an hour or so and then back again, sometimes they stop for a nap but with a family of hawks roosting in that paddock that doesn't happen very often.
They have access to plenty of other water spots, for drinking and washing, so it is not a problem for me to try to keep them on my land (in fact it was always the plan, they just have other ideas). I just wanted to clarify the salmonella contamination issue.
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 02 Dec 2009 23:34 #307769

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I would suspect that your neighbour is a ninney[;)] Don't people ever look beyond their own noses. That the waterways and wetlands of this country are full of birds, few of them domestic, all of them capable of carrying Salmonella, not to mention the little sparrows, seems to have totally escaped the idiot.

As I crossed our access bridge this morning to get to the cowshed, 9 wild ducks got up and decided it was too much bother and settled again. The pair of Paradise didn't even lift their heads from under their wings. Duck (Muscovey) waddled out as my appearance meant breakfast was nigh, Goose continued to swim, a shag flew off and the Pukes continued to bounce around in the raupo. This is normal and I can assure you I have never lost any stock to Salmonella. I've got more chance of losing them to the river than I do to Salmonella.

Cheers,
Ronnie
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 08:21 #307783

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the bottom line is that YES - it is possible that your ducks could cause his calf to get salmonella. best to keep you ducks on your property (and then they can't blame you) should it ever happen!

Personally I would also not be impressed with someone elses animals coming on to my land - be it a dog, sheep, cattle, ducks, geese if it is your animal then it should be at your place.

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 10:31 #307807

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Are the ducks going into his place or just swiming in stream that then runs into his place?? If the stream runs though both properties wouldn't both animals have the right to use it??? And also there would likely be any number of wild birds also using the river as ronny stated!!
Really seems abit over the top... we have streams and rivers bird ducks etc swim in them!! AND we fence them to stop cattle pooping in them as the is now required by reg council.... SO should the calf be kept from stream as well as its poop is a polutant??? WE have spent alot fencing drains streams and rivers to STOP stock using them as drinking sources. Calf should have a trough!
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 10:57 #307809

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Thanks Leanne for mentioning the water issue .[;)] I was going the keep hush.
My understanding is that as land is being subdivided the councils are requiring the landowners to fence the waterways so that stock can NOT drink from them, well the aim is for them not to deficate and foul the water.[:I] Seems rather harsh as we all have strream, ponds and dams to allow our stock access to water but I can see the reasoning behind it.
Maybe this should be mentioned to the calf owner.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment-waikato/news/article.cfm?o_id=441&objectid=10489991
There are no bad questions only those that are not asked.
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 12:10 #307818

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Couldn't you get some duck poo tested and then you'd know if it was an issue or not?
The trouble with some women is that they get all excited about nothing,and then they marry him.
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 12:35 #307823

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hubby has been fencing all open drains and the river the only wtaer the cattle are alow to access are the man made ponds. He finds it annoying that some farmers are doing it and others seem to get away with it... We have had salmonella in animals caused by wild birds swimming in the troughs accodring to vet. I really doubt there is much chance the calf will get it in running water. I just felt it was abit one sided going on about the ducks pooping in water when a calf can do as much damage
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 16:46 #307886

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I don't really see how you can stop ducks/sparrows or whatever messing up the water supplies - you might fence your ducks off but what's to stop all the wild ones? It's impossible. (isn't it?) I had (wild) ducks coming from who knows where (weren't any streams particularly close) every day and pooing in my horses water troughs. It was a huge nuisance and I used to refill the troughs every day - if I left it for a couple of days the water would be filthy. If anyone knows of a magic formula for keeping them away and out of the troughs I'd be stoked but I bet it's impossible so it seems to me a bit pointless for this farmer to ask you to keep your ducks away - there's probably more wild birds contaminating the water than you'll ever have!?
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 17:10 #307889

I think you take the risk that he could eradicate your ducks in some way (as would be his legal right in the case of some non-native birds causing nuisance). That would be my worry anyway, so I hope your penning effort works.

I would wonder if your ducks are in the "habit" of going to that area - so hopefully if you can get them in the habit of going somewhere else, this won't be so much of a problem. I would wonder if a daily walk, taking food down to where you want them to be, would be a good habit to get them into?

In regards to troughs, my then-neighbour had a lovely Pilgrim goose who always wanted to swim, defeather and pooh in the main water trough on the land I was caring for at the time, despite having a pond and a creek just metres away.

The compromise (other than cleaning the damn thing out twice a day) was to cris-cross it with battens, leaving a gap just big enough for the livestock to stick their noses in and drink. Once she realised she couldn't bathe in the trough any more, she went elsewhere, and after a few months I took the battens off. It would seem she forgot, or preferred the pond/creek, as she didn't do it again.
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 18:56 #307900

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Of course wid birds are also a risk factor but they are not Xarteps responsibility. Just because there are wild birds visiting does not give Xarteps birds a entry visa as well ;-)

Look at it this way - if I had "wild" or unknown dogs visiting my farm I would not expect that my neighbours would see it as automatic approval that their dog could also roam my place also!

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 19:44 #307906

I have read that there is a risk of young calves getting salmonella from ducks which is why I only let my new weaners in the same paddock as my ducks and goats for a few days till they got used to their new home and met the goatsand then promptly moved them.
We have made a hole in a round piece of board and fitted it over the trough in the duck paddock for the same reason..so the goats can drink if they feel the need but the ducks can not swim and poop in there.

I think the risk is fairly unlikely from the 4 ducks I have living in my front paddock but still did not want to risk it.
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Ducks and salmonella 03 Dec 2009 21:18 #307917

cowvet;292140 wrote: Look at it this way - if I had "wild" or unknown dogs visiting my farm I would not expect that my neighbours would see it as automatic approval that their dog could also roam my place also!

Dogs are a slightly different example though - there are laws and bylaws about dogs and their control.

Ducks on the other hand, are a semi-protected species, in that there is a legal hunting season, and outside of that you can't shoot them.

I believe there is also a law about roaming of certain animals, ie cats - you cannot force someone to contain their cat.

However, this actually comes down to a "getting on with your neighbours" situation, and Xartep does have options to contain them, or redirect them anyway :D
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 06:08 #307943

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Salmonella is not the only risk that your neighbour has from your ducks. Another very big risk is liver fluke, and I'm certain there are others, perhaps even Brucellosis and Leptospira.
But if you want your ducks, can't keep them in, and want to take the risk that the ducks will not bring bugs from the neighbours to your place, what about offering to pay for any expences the neighbour might have from your ducks?

PS I am slightly anti ducks at the moment. We've had 1 stud donkey, 1 stud Romney ram, and 5 mother ewes die of something that looks very much like Salmonella, which look very much like the Padadise Ducks brought in.
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 07:12 #307949

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I tend to be with PG here ducks aren't dogs and if it was wild ducks they could only be shot in season (or out of season with good reason and aspecial licence) We are talking about 7 ducks swiming in a common stream As far as I understand water ways are NOT owned?! only the land around them?? There are enough bylaws inforce telling us what we can and cant do with the water flowing though our land!
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 08:21 #307954

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Leeanne;292196 wrote: I tend to be with PG here ducks aren't dogs and if it was wild ducks they could only be shot in season (or out of season with good reason and aspecial licence) We are talking about 7 ducks swiming in a common stream As far as I understand water ways are NOT owned?! only the land around them?? There are enough bylaws inforce telling us what we can and cant do with the water flowing though our land!

i used dogs as an example that i thought might ring a few bells for people considering the nuisance factor and recent posts on here.

Leanne - i will use another example for you. Pigs - if your neighbour got pigs and they started visiting your property and defaecating and urinating on your dairy pastures (consider the risk of lepto from pigs to cattle) then how would you feel about the neighbours controlling their animals on their side of the fence.

Not trying to wind things up but i got the distinct impression that people who had nieighbours that would complain were insinuating that they were whinging for no good reason.
Me - I am happy to confess that i would be a neighbour who would complain. I don't want your animals on my property.

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 08:28 #307955

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LongRidge;292190 wrote: Salmonella is not the only risk that your neighbour has from your ducks. Another very big risk is liver fluke,

to the contrary actually. The intermediate host for liver fluke are molluscs (a couple of types of fresh water snails). Ducks are often used in developing countries to help control liver fluke but eating the snails!

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 08:36 #307956

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..and following right along from Cowvets comment re liver fluke, Longridge!

Brucellosis and Leptospriosis from ducks? I don't think so! They are not avian problems as far as I know!
Sue
Labrador lover for yonks, breeder of pedigree Murray Grey cattle for almost as long, and passionate poultry person for more years than I care to count.
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 09:20 #307964

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cowvet;292202 wrote: Ducks are often used in developing countries to help control liver fluke but eating the snails!

As indeed they do because I've seen them do it. So does my goose - but then she would eat anything. :p

Cheers,
Ronnie
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 09:34 #307969

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:D I had to chuckle a bit as we are talking about a few ducks swiming on a stream...... I still reackon say to nieghbor you don't want his calf POOing in water thats going to flow on to your land[;)].
To my knowledge theres no season on pigs so they can be shot when ever...
Im sure the neighbors of people with pigeons get sick of them pooping in on roofs (esp if you on tank water). DONT all birds carry salmonella....
AT the moment we have stray sheep, a deer (who thinks he a yearling calf as he has bonded with them...) I guess he is a tb risk? we are try to find owner he is very cute and young! turkeys( bloody messy things) these are all someone elses...on our place we round up the sheep and send them home everynow and them the turkeys come and go... they get the odd hurry up with bike!!!
The deer (stag) is out of the ordinary I guess if hes not claimed soon someone will shoot him:(:(. I said cant we just leave him but hubby said no!!:(
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 09:54 #307977

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Without having read all the replies - aren't farmers 'encouraged' to prevent their stock from drinking from streams?

Here in Canterbury many farmers have to fence off the streams that run through their properties so that their cattle does not cause any more erosion and contamination to already overloaded waterways. I haven't heard about ducks being prevented from using streams - it's their natural habitat. 5000 ducks on a duck farm would be an issue, but 7???
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 09:56 #307978

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Turkey for christmas dinner Leanne?
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:03 #307980

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The gap in the fence has been blocked (it was smaller than a brick) and the Ducks are on the front lawn. [;)]
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:24 #307989

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Pumpkingirl;292158 wrote: Dogs are a slightly different example though - there are laws and bylaws about dogs and their control.

Ducks on the other hand, are a semi-protected species, in that there is a legal hunting season, and outside of that you can't shoot them.

I believe there is also a law about roaming of certain animals, ie cats - you cannot force someone to contain their cat.

However, this actually comes down to a "getting on with your neighbours" situation, and Xartep does have options to contain them, or redirect them anyway :D
While I agree we are only talking minor nuisance value of a few ducks swimming in a stream :) there are actually laws regarding domestic poultry and their containment. Without looking it up... it's broadly something like:
'if trespassing they may be disposed of ... in a humane manner... no notice of intended action is required, not allowed to take the birds anywhere but must leave them in situ for the owners to retrieve'.

I wondered if your neighbour was taking all his domestic and stock water from the stream Xartep? Has he got a pump or something in the offending area?
Strange how much you've got to know, Before you know how little you know.

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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:31 #307993

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Leeanne wrote
DONT all birds carry salmonella....

No they don't! just like all humans don't carry salmonella!
It is a disease just like any other! Some individuals which have had it might be carriers, but others recover and have immunity.
Another myth that poultry have salmonella as a matter of course!

My job whilst working in the commercial poultry breeding industry involved endless testing for salmonella in all sorts of places, to ensure it wasn't there and keeping it out! The Quarantine breeding farm and hatchery tested their staff every 6 months and after returning from overseas holidays, to ensure they didn't put the birds at risk of catching salmonella!
Sue
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:49 #307998

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Leeanne;292216 wrote: Im sure the neighbors of people with pigeons get sick of them pooping in on roofs (esp if you on tank water).
AT the moment we have stray sheep, a deer (who thinks he a yearling calf as he has bonded with them...) I guess he is a tb risk? we are try to find owner he is very cute and young! turkeys( bloody messy things) these are all someone elses...on our place we round up the sheep and send them home everynow and them the turkeys come and go... they get the odd hurry up with bike!!!
The deer (stag) is out of the ordinary I guess if hes not claimed soon someone will shoot him:(:(. I said cant we just leave him but hubby said no!!:(

Aaahhhh Leanne so you are saying that the neighbours animals on your land are a nuisance too and that you don't want them there...careful you might turn into one of those whinging neighbours (like me!)

I love animals...they're delicious
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:53 #308000

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Sorry i didnt mean they have it all the time, all types (sparrows etc) can have it.
Yep turkey for dinner (store brought)[;)]!

My point too simkin!!

From what you say xartep stream flow from his place to your place and back to his??? So even if swimming on your bit of stream water going to flow over this place again. If this the case nieghbor a bit of a wally[;)] coz poo still guna flow :D
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 10:58 #308001

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yep[;)] Ive been known to whinge about nieghbors stock....
Also get sick of saving them of road, out of fences, cast in paddock ,hooked to fence by gate latch though nose. Ive lost rack of the number of times Ive had to go rescue something!!
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 11:58 #308011

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Leeanne;292248 wrote:

From what you say xartep stream flow from his place to your place and back to his??? So even if swimming on your bit of stream water going to flow over this place again. If this the case nieghbor a bit of a wally[;)] coz poo still guna flow :D
Other way around - my place -> his place (very small amount, on bottom corner of 20acres) -> my place.

He has a water tank at the house for house only. No Troughs, all stock come down the hill to drink out of the stream. Small flock of Sheep (50ish - not his) & 2-10 cows (only 2 his).
3 Cocker Spaniels, 1 Huntaway, 3 Cats, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Ducks, Chickens, Bunnies - small petting zoo?:rolleyes::cool:

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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 12:20 #308016

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Oh well he cant stop your ducks swimming up stream on your place
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Ducks and salmonella 04 Dec 2009 17:45 #308049

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Setting aside whether the animals are hoofed or feathered, it does seem hypocritical for him to say your stock cannot have access to the stream, because his do, unless he is excluding his stock from the stream and just running water from it to a trough. Otherwise surely the next downstream could say the same to him...
The healthy stream slogan is something like we are all downstream from someone.
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