Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: what cant pigs eat?

what cant pigs eat? 24 Oct 2009 14:56 #20540

I have just been to the local markets and have got 6 banana boxes full of fruit and trimmings. I have bananas, nectarines, oranges, plums, pumpkin, lettuce and celery trimmings. I vaugley remember celery causing mouth ulcers so will compost that, but is the rest alright even with the stones. Do I need to take the small labels off each piece of fruit? I have started but thought I would ask to maybe save a job. They have been mainly feed on bread so far so should I slowly introduce the fruit? I am aiming for morning feed of fruit and night feed of bread.

Cheers
Glenn
_______________________
23 acres, a cat(olive), Maddison the chocolate lab, beefy the texel ram, 3 ewes, 5 steers, 10 chooks and lots of hares.

www.freewebs.com/the-travelling-miscalls
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 24 Oct 2009 15:38 #302010

  • celt
  • celt's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 621
From rearing two lots of devon large black weaners for the freezer I remember that avocado is bad, the stone and skin, and citrus can upset their stomach. I found that they were pretty smart and left stuff not keen on. Common sense says not to feed them large gluts of too much of any one fruit or veg. Oh and raw potatoes are supposed to be bad. But I have heard someone on here say that they never had any problems with the odd raw potato skin. I always picked it out.

I presume you know not to feed them cooked meats. If you can get your hands on cheap milk it is a great way to put weight on them cheaply. They do need to have something like pig tucker as well to make certain they are getting a balanced diet. Hope this helps.
1 kiwi husband, 14 year old boy girl twins. Gave up my beautiful 16 acres north of auckland for 1000m2 in central christchurch! Yikes. Plan to get as much produce out of that 1000m2 as possible.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 24 Oct 2009 15:40 #302012

  • celt
  • celt's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 621
I forgot I never took off the labels on fruit but I made sure there wasn't any plastic wrap or styrofoam in it.
1 kiwi husband, 14 year old boy girl twins. Gave up my beautiful 16 acres north of auckland for 1000m2 in central christchurch! Yikes. Plan to get as much produce out of that 1000m2 as possible.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 24 Oct 2009 16:23 #302018

Thanks for that. We ended up taking all the labels off anyway. There were a couple of avocados in there, will have to watch for them(I took the seed out) there was also grapes, a couple of rockmelons, pears and a couple of cucumbers. We now have 8 20l buckets of fruit and lettuce to go with the bread and colostrum milk.
Glenn
_______________________
23 acres, a cat(olive), Maddison the chocolate lab, beefy the texel ram, 3 ewes, 5 steers, 10 chooks and lots of hares.

www.freewebs.com/the-travelling-miscalls
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 24 Oct 2009 18:03 #302031

I was told, raw celery, leeks, onions, parsnips, and green potato (all of these are OK cooked and I throw in a hand full of rice or pasta when I cook them up)) . also watch scraps for tea bags they are bad. pumpkin is OK but not rotting pumpkin. Mine eat avocados all the time not problems. A catcher full of grass clipping now and then especially if their area is getting a bit bare.
kats
Live your life in such a way that it will be easy for people to say nice things at your funeral [;)]
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 25 Oct 2009 10:09 #302061

  • kindajojo
  • kindajojo's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3222
  • Thank you received: 11
dont feed them cabbage in the weeks before they go to the butcher as it taints the meat.

What is wrong with cooked meat...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 25 Oct 2009 11:13 #302065

  • LongRidge
  • LongRidge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 12492
  • Thank you received: 23
I understand that it is raw meat that they must not have, but cooked meat is OK. Can anyone confirm, please?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 25 Oct 2009 11:25 #302069

  • Ronney
  • Ronney's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 4718
  • Thank you received: 12
LongRidge;285595 wrote: I understand that it is raw meat that they must not have, but cooked meat is OK. Can anyone confirm, please?

Short reply for the moment. All meat, which includes previously cooked meat in waste food, processed meat such as ham, and raw meat has to be cooked before being fed to pigs. If this is done (and it is a legal requirement) there is no reason not to feed meat to pigs.

Cheers,
Ronnie
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 08:35 #302135

  • Elkrab
  • Elkrab's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • lsb member
  • Posts: 25
Hi there. Virgin poster, but avid reader. Planning on doing the LSB thing in Tikokino as soon as our house sells in Napier.

Anyway......i have read varying comments on feeding acorns to pigs. Some say they are a natural feed in the wild and others say they are toxic. Can anyone confirm.
Someone once said "there is no such thing as a stupid question!".......I am trying to prove them wrong!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 11:16 #302151

  • DrVee
  • DrVee's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • advanced lsb member
  • Posts: 359
Raw meat carries a parasite that lives in the muslce fibres and can be passed onto humans. It's actually illegal to feed raw meat to pigs in NZ.

Google 'Trichinella spiralis'
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Nah, just shoot it.......
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 13:43 #302161

  • Yakut
  • Yakut's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 4414
When getting dinner ready, I have a saucepan to peel the vegetables into and any other bits like leek bits, I bring this to the boil and add it to the pig tucker, water and all, then mix in a bit of cold water so it goes into a sort of porridge. Seeing as we are only looking after two small Kunekune I found that getting stuff from our friends at a local cafe was a bit of a waste of time and a hassle, cos the piggies sure don't need it, they are well covered!

I was feeding them way too much pig tucker and it was surprising how fast they put on weight.

The pig tucker has all the right things in it to keep them healthy, vitamins and minerals and they mug me for their feed bins every day.
I also found that going in every day to muck them out makes them realise that they are not going to be fed every time someone walks through the gate.

They now wander up and say hello and I give them a bit of a scratch and they wander off again and I can get on with mucking out without their help.
Same with most animals I suppose, if they only see you at feed time, you're probably going to get mugged when you do go in to them for any other reason.

If they were our pigs, I'd probably put a post in the ground, maybe with some old yard broom heads nailed to it for them to scratch on cos they love to get a good swing going with their hips and shoulders against anything that will stay still. The blissful look on their faces is hilarious.

I guess your pigs aren't pets as these ones are. These two will not be made into dinner. Life of bloody Riley! Ha ha.

Yakut
Tinkerty Tonk
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 13:53 #302166

  • moggy
  • moggy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3247
Ronney;285600 wrote: Short reply for the moment. All meat, which includes previously cooked meat in waste food, processed meat such as ham, and raw meat has to be cooked before being fed to pigs. If this is done (and it is a legal requirement) there is no reason not to feed meat to pigs.

Cheers,
Ronnie
Does that only apply to pigs raised commercially? It would be one of those laws completely impossible to police if they applied it to people with only a couple of pigs for homekill.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 14:06 #302173

  • Kate
  • Kate's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Web Goddess
  • Posts: 10767
  • Thank you received: 32
Elkrab;285672 wrote: Hi there. Virgin poster, but avid reader. Planning on doing the LSB thing in Tikokino as soon as our house sells in Napier.

Anyway......i have read varying comments on feeding acorns to pigs. Some say they are a natural feed in the wild and others say they are toxic. Can anyone confirm.
Hi Elkrab and welcome to the posting side of lsb [8D][8D]

As I understand it, acorns are not poisonous to pigs but as with all things they should part of a varied diet [8D]

Excuse my ignorance but where is Tikokino?

Cheers
Kate
Web Goddess
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 15:02 #302180

  • Elkrab
  • Elkrab's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • lsb member
  • Posts: 25
Thanks Kate. Tikokino is nearly half way between Napier and Dannevirke.
Someone once said "there is no such thing as a stupid question!".......I am trying to prove them wrong!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 15:56 #302187

my pet pig (wild breed) who i just recently re homed ate what was appropriate and left what wasn't. Admittedly we fed her raw meat (whole skinned possum when the dogs had one to spare) and she loved it!![xx(]
Other foods just went in the bucket edible or not and never had a problem over the 2years i had her. She also loved eating nectarine/peach stones (crunch, crunch) and never had a problem eating them ad-lib.
Tame breeds may be different though as they may have not so strong instincts in them.
I have heard also the raw potato skins are not good, but she had them many a times by accident and nothing much happened, I still tried to avoid feeding them it though. :)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 19:35 #302217

  • LongRidge
  • LongRidge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 12492
  • Thank you received: 23
Trichinosis is really nasty ..... up with hydatids ..... and has been reported in NZ, but only once. Because wild animals can transfer it, I personally would cook the possums.
I understand that pigs are the only animals that can eat acorns. Oak trees should be a noxious plant because of the number of poisonings each year.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 20:09 #302225

  • moggy
  • moggy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3247
from what i know acorns are not poisonous at all. Un paletable yes. but poisonous no. I have a recipe book including acorn pancakes
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 21:07 #302231

I collect acorns for my pigs they love them
kats
Live your life in such a way that it will be easy for people to say nice things at your funeral [;)]
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 23:32 #302255

  • Ronney
  • Ronney's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 4718
  • Thank you received: 12
moggy;285710 wrote: Does that only apply to pigs raised commercially? It would be one of those laws completely impossible to police if they applied it to people with only a couple of pigs for homekill.

No Moggy, it applies to all pigs. And like all laws, you are right, it is impossible to police. However, although I personally think that many laws are an ass, this is one that I do go along with - and as a Pom, you should remember the FNM outbreak in the UK that was allegedly caused by a pig farmer feeding untreated waste food and the cause of the outbreak was the meat. We don't have FNM in NZ - yet! It isn't a question of if but when and since much of our meat is now imported and imported from countries where this disease exists, it makes sound commonsense for everybody to cook all waste meats.
kindajojo;285591 wrote:
dont feed them cabbage in the weeks before they go to the butcher as it taints the meat.

Kindajojo, a pig is what you feed it. If you feed it apricots prior to killing it will taste of apricots, if you feed it raw fish it will taste of fish...... Another good reason to cook all food.

I cannot stress strongly enough (although it doesn't seem to get through) the importance of cooking all waste food to be feed to pigs - and it doesn't matter whether they are a commercial breed, a wild pig or a Kune, they are all pigs. There is more than one reason for doing this.

1. Cooking food will kill most bacteria and other diseases that can accumulate in waste food.

2. It makes raw and unpalatable food edible i.e. onions, parsnip, potato, celery.

3. Pigs use a lot of energy converting raw food into energy. Sounds double dutch? Well, think about it. They use up to something like one third of what they consume converting to energy so this is a huge wastage of food. When cooked the food is much easier to digest and in terms of grower pigs they will need less to grow, in terms of adult pigs they need less to maintain them.

Below I have attempted to list the foods that should and should not be fed to pigs. Most food can be fed if cooked.

Potato: Fed raw in large amounts causes toxicity and will often result in death. One or two potatoes or skins from last nights dinner preparation won't hurt them. To be safe, cook all potato which renders it quite safe for pigs.

Parsnip/Celery: While pigs will often not eat this in the raw state, some do and although it is not toxic to them it can leave lesions around the mouth similar to that of FNM disease. While this is uncomfortable for the pig it is not a disease in itself and can be remedied by cooking.

Citrus: While some pigs don't mind citrus fruit, most will spurn it and it doesn't improve with cooking. Throw it out.

Avocado: A fruit that is feed to my pigs in medium volumes but again, always cooked. I have found no realistic data that shows that it is toxic to pigs so would excercise commonsense and feed little in any one go.

Milk: Pigs love milk and it can almost be a food in itself. It is also thought to have worm inhibiting factors. However, it needs to be fed with care. Pigs that have never had milk as part of their diet need to have it watered down - I use a 50/50 ratio - and introduced gradually. Pigs can "blow their ring" (prolapsed rectum) if suddenly fed too much milk and it usually results in high vet bills or death. I can assure you it is not a pretty sight. If being fed to grower pigs, reduce the amount of milk towards killing as it is very good at putting on fat.

Tea Leaves, Tea Bags, Coffee Grounds: No nutritional value and can result in the death of the pig. They will not pass through the gut and can sit there clogging up the system.

Bones: A no-no. Large bones such as mutton shanks won't/can't be eaten and just clutter up the paddock asking for rats. Chop, fish and chicken bones have a happy knack of getting stuck in the throat or perforating the gut both of which will mean a painful death for the pig.

That's enough for one night :p

Cheers,
Ronnie
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 26 Oct 2009 23:46 #302256

moggy;285777 wrote: from what i know acorns are not poisonous at all.
Oak tree leaves and acorns, especially green ones, are most definitely toxic.

Our farm veterinary practice sends out a newsletter warning farmers and lifestyle block owners every year, trying to reduce the number of callouts they get, but still they are called out to animals that have been poisoned by eating oak leaves and acorns.

I believe animals have to eat a lot of acorns, but when you think about the number of acorns that a tree can shed, it often is a lot of acorns.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 08:34 #302265

  • moggy
  • moggy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3247
Ronney;285809 wrote: No Moggy, it applies to all pigs. And like all laws, you are right, it is impossible to police. However, although I personally think that many laws are an ass, this is one that I do go along with - and as a Pom, you should remember the FNM outbreak in the UK that was allegedly caused by a pig farmer feeding untreated waste food and the cause of the outbreak was the meat.
If i remember correctly the outbreak in 2001 the main cause was the horrendous conditions the animals were kept in, it spread by air and direct contact, not by food. they had had several visits from the RSCPA before it happened. The last outbreak came from a government laboratory. I think you are confusing it with BSE (aka mad cow disease) which was definitley linked to contaminated food.
Note I am not saying therefore people should feed raw meat to pigs, there are other reasons why it is not a good idea, however feeding raw meat to pigs is not likely to give them foot and mouth disease.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 09:00 #302267

  • Ronney
  • Ronney's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 4718
  • Thank you received: 12
Moggy, this is what I am referring to and I have always understood that this was the cause of the 2001 outbreak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-and-mouth_disease

I'm not too good at this pasteing business so you will have to scroll down a little way to find it.

Cheers,
Ronnie
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 09:22 #302270

  • moggy
  • moggy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3247
Yes I know the disease. It was transmitted predominantly by air and direct contact birds picking at the piled up carcases waiting to be burned were thought to be a huge contributor to it. And also one of the main criticisms were that animals in the UK were shipped great distances to be slaughtered carrying the disease a lot further than it would have done naturally. It started a campaign to have more local abbatoirs once again.
The farm where the outbreak was had had many problems with hygiene and had had many complaints made against it prior to this. They never found a definitive cause of the outbreak at the first farm, the rest was fairly obviously by air and direct contact.
I remember the outbreak very well, half the countryside was shut down, laybys were closed, wheel disinfectants were everywhere and farms banned all visitors, including even the postman.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 10:45 #302275

moggy;285821 wrote: If i remember correctly the outbreak in 2001 the main cause was the horrendous conditions the animals were kept in, it spread by air and direct contact, not by food. I think you are confusing it with BSE (aka mad cow disease) which was definitley linked to contaminated food.
Note I am not saying therefore people should feed raw meat to pigs, there are other reasons why it is not a good idea, however feeding raw meat to pigs is not likely to give them foot and mouth disease.
Taken from Wikipedia

The consensus today is that the FMD virus came from infected or contaminated meat that was part of the garbage being fed to pigs at Burnside Farm in Heddon-on-the-wall. [8] The garbage had not been properly heat-sterilized and the virus had thus been allowed to infect the pigs. Seeing as FMD virus was apparently not present in the UK beforehand and given the import restrictions for meat from countries known to harbour FMD, it is likely that the infected meat had been illegally imported to the UK. Such imports are likely to be for the catering industry and a total ban on feeding of catering waste containing meat or meat products was introduced early in the epidemic. [8]

An awful time for all of us in agriculture and one I wish I never see repeated anywhere.

We are about to get some weaners and will not be feeding them any meat at all.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 12:05 #302284

  • moggy
  • moggy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 3247
As i said previously the action of feeding meat to a pig will not give it FMD, no more than feeding beef to a human will give you BSE. For either of those to occur, the disease first has to be present in the food. (please don't anyone quote that first sentence out of context). As NZ does not have FMD, chucking dead fido or a possum over the fence is not going to give the pig FMD. I am not saying feeding fido to the pig is a good idea, but it will not give it FMD in NZ Similarly eating beef in NZ is not likely to give you BSE.

It should be noted that cats and dogs can get FMD, but we still give them raw meat.
The epidemic (NB, I mean specifically the rapid spread and the resultant devastation it caused), was not caused by contaminated food. With the exception of the first farm, there were no suggestions that any ainmals had been fed anything dodgy. There was a catalogue of factors at that first farm to do with animal welfare. Their food had been illegally imported for a start, it was not as if they were acting within the law to begin with. Locally the farm investigation featured a lot on the news and it went into alot more detail that is available on the net.

It is the same with any animal food, if you know the company selling it is reputable, then the food you buy should also be fine. If you go around randomly getting food from dodgy suppliers who import illegally what do you expect? Besides, even if you picked up some dodgy meat from a blackmarket supplier, if you handled the meat whilst processing it and it was infected with FMD, you would probably transmit it to your animals on contact due to the virulent nature of the disease. So cooking it would not get rid of the risk. (Of course it gets rid of the risk of other pathogens though)

I am all for food safety, but I think people should know the correct reasons behind the laws
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 13:01 #302293

  • LongRidge
  • LongRidge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • valued contributor
  • Posts: 12492
  • Thank you received: 23
Back to acorns .....
The latest copy of "Surveillance", vol 36, no 3, Sept 2009, p13 and 16, gives 3 cases of acorn toxicity. In one case 28 yearling dairy heifers died from acorns, 2 2-yo died from eating regrowth leaves, and 13 unknown age cattle died from acorns. Keep them well clear of cattle, especially when they are hungry.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

what cant pigs eat? 27 Oct 2009 19:57 #302349

And back to Foot and Mouth , as the 2001 started on a pig farm it's I'll draw your attention to Defras report

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/fmd/documents/fmdorigins1.pdf

Taken from above
Point 7 gives the most likely cause.

Origin of the epidemic
5. Although the first FMD outbreak was confirmed in pigs in an abattoir in Essex on 20
February (outbreak FMD/01), the origin for that outbreak, and the index case for the
whole epidemic, is considered to have been a pig finishing unit at Burnside Farm,
Heddon on the Wall, Northumberland (outbreak FMD/04), which was licensed to feed
processed waste food under the Animal Byproducts Order 1999. Disease was
confirmed on these premises on 23 February as a result of the epidemiological inquiry
carried out into the origin of outbreak FMD/01. Detailed investigations carried out on
24 February at Burnside Farm by FMD experts from the National and World FMD
Reference Laboratory, Institute for Animal Health, Pirbright, revealed that the majority of
pigs on the premises at that time were infected with FMD but at different stages of the
disease. The expert’s opinion was that some pigs had 12-day-old lesions. This
implies that disease was certainly present on 12 February and with an incubation
period of 2-14 days it could have been present from as early as 26 January. However,
Burnside Farm had moved pigs off the premises on two occasions between 8 and 22
February. With an ever-changing pig population and advancing disease, it is possible
that pigs that had recovered from the initial, acute phase of the disease had already
been sent to the abattoir. The significance of this is that the pigs that had been sent to
slaughter may have had older disease than that evident on the farm at the time of the
24 February investigation, so disease may have entered the premises earlier in
January.
6. All possible means for the introduction of FMD into Burnside Farm have been
investigated. Investigations have shown no evidence that disease was introduced to
the farm by animals, people, vehicles, equipment, vermin, wildlife etc. There was no
evidence of disease on premises within 3km of Burnside Farm which predates that
found there.
7. Having investigated and eliminated all other possible sources of infection I have
concluded that the likeliest source of infection for the pigs on Burnside Farm was meat
or meat products containing or contaminated with FMD virus and that the virus could
have been introduced to his pigs through the consumption of such material in
unprocessed or inadequately processed waste food or the consumption of processed
waste food contaminated with such material.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.121 seconds
Go to top